A question about the word 'fledgling' (1 Viewer)

[Gonçalo Elias]

Hi all,

I would like to know whether the word 'fledgling' is used for any kind of bird or if it only applies to nidicolous species (but not to nidifugous ones).

Thanks,
Gonçalo

 

[Nutcracker]

Not sure! I've never heard of it being used of Ostriches, so there's a start :eek!:3

 

[Jos Stratford]

I would say any bird that has just recently left the nest and begun to fly ... safely excluding the Ostriches

 

[Gonçalo Elias]

Thanks both. The question is: ducks leave the nest as soon as they are bord, they don't fly but they swim. Newly bord waders or partridges don't fly but they can run. Do you call them fledglings at this stage, or when they start to fly, or not at all?

 

[dantheman]

Fledglings are birds that can't fly AND need their parents to feed them. So passerines etc.

Birds such as ducks feed themselves when young, so not called fledglings. Nor are gamebirds. Waders are a bit of a grey area, as some are taken food by their parents?? But don't think commonly called fledglings.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

So at what point can a bird be said to have fledged?

 

[Nutcracker]

So at what point can a bird be said to have fledged?

I was watching a brood of Shoveler on a local lake this summer, and then one day seeing them fly and thinking "Ah, they've fledged now". So I guess you'd say when they're first able to fly, and also that it can apply to ducks.

 

[Xenospiza]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fledge
Fledging is leaving the nest: a fledgling has left the nest but is not capable of sustained flight.
According to this article, a duckling off the nest would also be a fledgling.

 

[dantheman]

There are two cases to answer here -

i) The dictionary definition of fledgling.
ii) Usage in normal english use.


For helping out a non-native english speaker in normal use of the english language, I would say that 'fledgling' is never used for the species examples above. 'Fledgling ducks' would never be used on an RSPB or BTO or local patch website, whereas a 'fledgling Robin' would be.

 

[Nutcracker]

There are two cases to answer here -

i) The dictionary definition of fledgling.
ii) Usage in normal english use.


For helping out a non-native english speaker in normal use of the english language, I would say that 'fledgling' is never used for the species examples above. 'Fledgling ducks' would never be used on an RSPB or BTO or local patch website, whereas a 'fledgling Robin' would be.

And the different usage between 'fledged' and 'fledgeling'. You can use the former for e.g. a young Mute Swan, but you wouldn't use the latter.

 

[halftwo]

Having wing feathers enough to fly (same origin as fletcher?)
So, strictly can be used for ducks, but not something I'd ever say

 

[Gonçalo Elias]

Thanks everyone for the contributions.

As fas as I understand the situation is clear for passerines but much less so for ducks and other nidifugous birds.

 

[Hauksen]

Hi Gonçalo,

As fas as I understand the situation is clear for passerines but much less so for ducks and other nidifugous birds.

Here two links to a site I really like:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/fledgeling

https://www.etymonline.com/word/fledge

Of course, the results show how words originated, not necessarily how they are currently defined.

In German, only the related "flügge" ('fledged') exists, and applied to ducks, it would be used to describe an immature bird with the fully functional coat of flight feathers. (In my non-expert opinion.)

Regards,

Henning

 

[dantheman]

To continue the 'muddy waters' theme, I've seen references on twitter to Guillemot fledglings (for birds older than a few days old that have followed their parents onto the sea).

I'd suggest that if people don't have much need to refer to a young bird, they don't refer to it?! Young ducks have a name already - ducklings, whereas auks don't. For gamebirds and waders, I think people refer to pre-fledged young as chicks, or are there other technical terms?

So scientific usage, and birding usage ...

 

[Hauksen]

Hi Dan,

For gamebirds and waders, I think people refer to pre-fledged young as chicks, or are there other technical terms?

I think it might be "pulli":

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pullus

Regards,

Henning

 

[dantheman]

Hi Dan,



I think it might be "pulli":

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pullus

Regards,

Henning

Thanks, hadn't thought of that. Certainly birds ringed in the nest are referred to as 'pulli' eg in annual reports etc, but I've never come across the word otherwise (ie spoken, or in general usage).

btw just looked up young Pheasant to check - they are called 'poults'. Again, a specific term (but shooting industry rather than birding presumably)


It is all quite interesting stuff, which don't think about normally

 

[Hauksen]

Hi Dan,

btw just looked up young Pheasant to check - they are called 'poults'. Again, a specific term (but shooting industry rather than birding presumably)

According to etymonline.com, 'poult' is derived (via 'pullet') from 'pullus'. So, you've found an application outside passerines!

Regards,

Henning

 

[pbjosh]

To continue the 'muddy waters' theme, I've seen references on twitter to Guillemot fledglings (for birds older than a few days old that have followed their parents onto the sea).

Alcids are altricial and are at the nest site and entirely dependent on the parent for shelter for the first week or so, then for food for a couple weeks more. A quick google shows that, for instance, Common Murre leaves the nest site and goes to sea at 24 days, on average.

I think that would be called fledging, and wouldn't muddy the waters terribly.

Similar to procellarids fledging when they take their first flight and leave their burrow / natal location.

I think that waders, waterfowl, gamebirds, and ostriches/emus/rheas and the like do confuse it a bit. It wouldn't personally occur to me to use the term fledging when they leave the nest, as they "fledge" within hours or perhaps a day or two at most of their birth and are able to feed. However they aren't able to fly. However some young alcids fledge before they can fly. Penguins certainly fledge when they go to sea, but they aren't yet able to fly (as far as I understand - open to corrections here!)

Semantics do get messy but I think it's very safe to say that using the term fledging for precocial birds is confusing at best, even if there's a technical merit for it being applicable.

 

[dantheman]

Cheers, yes.

The one of two links I glanced at mentioned auks leaving at a few days old which agree would be wrong, my bad. Young gamebirds can fly, badly, when a fraction of the size of the adult as an escape dispersal from predators for example. But of course they can't fly properly.

 

[Nutcracker]

To continue the 'muddy waters' theme, I've seen references on twitter to Guillemot fledglings (for birds older than a few days old that have followed their parents onto the sea).

Also from twitter (specifically @SteelySeabirder), 'jumplings' for Guillemots leaving the cliffs :t: