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Advice for first (high-end) binoculars : Safari & Birding (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter MikeBR
- Start date
Thanks for your input.
I must say I find the suggestion surprising, especiall for 8x magnification. I'm looking for a quality investment that should last at least a decade, hopefully a few. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but I'm not convinced of the longevity of IS systems. I was a photographer for ten years (side business, commercial work and wedding) and always shot Canon camera's and lenses. I have tried/tested at least a 10 IS lenses but never bought one, they never convinced me. At least at first they were also much more prone to being damaged. I always stayed with L-PRIME lenses and never had any issues.
Thanks again for all the input. Quick update.
Had a chance this morning to test out a few different Leica, Swarovski and KiteOptics models. Including one with image stabilisation. I wear glasses and my eyes are set pretty deep. This causes issues where I don't get the full view through the optics but have a black ring around my view, like looking through a tube. This was especially bad with the Leica's and the KiteOptics models I tried, it was horrible with the IS model they had.
I tried the Swarovski CL 8x25 and 10x25 last and was very impressed with them. Very small yet still comfortable to hold. The image was very sharp. I still had a very thin black ring, but a lot better than all other models. I also spend some time comparing 8x and 10x and really prefer the 8x over any of the 10x. The image is much more calm/stable and the added wider field of view was very welcome.
So I learned that the Exit Pupil Distance is very important for me personally. With the CL 8X25 this is already 17mm, yet still not enough. With the Zeiss SFL 8X30 this is 18mm, so hopefully this will result in a perfect full image view with glasses on. Else I will have to switch to lenses.
Unfortunately they don't sell Zeiss, but the owner did help me find a store where they do. I called them up and they do have an SFL 8x30 in stock and the CL 8x25 as well. So I will try them out tomorrow morning. There is quite a price difference between those two and the Zeiss are also slighter bigger and heavier. So I'm quite intrigied to see if they can impress enough to convince me to get them over the Swarovski.
I will post when I have tested the SFL'S.
Had a chance this morning to test out a few different Leica, Swarovski and KiteOptics models. Including one with image stabilisation. I wear glasses and my eyes are set pretty deep. This causes issues where I don't get the full view through the optics but have a black ring around my view, like looking through a tube. This was especially bad with the Leica's and the KiteOptics models I tried, it was horrible with the IS model they had.
I tried the Swarovski CL 8x25 and 10x25 last and was very impressed with them. Very small yet still comfortable to hold. The image was very sharp. I still had a very thin black ring, but a lot better than all other models. I also spend some time comparing 8x and 10x and really prefer the 8x over any of the 10x. The image is much more calm/stable and the added wider field of view was very welcome.
So I learned that the Exit Pupil Distance is very important for me personally. With the CL 8X25 this is already 17mm, yet still not enough. With the Zeiss SFL 8X30 this is 18mm, so hopefully this will result in a perfect full image view with glasses on. Else I will have to switch to lenses.
Unfortunately they don't sell Zeiss, but the owner did help me find a store where they do. I called them up and they do have an SFL 8x30 in stock and the CL 8x25 as well. So I will try them out tomorrow morning. There is quite a price difference between those two and the Zeiss are also slighter bigger and heavier. So I'm quite intrigied to see if they can impress enough to convince me to get them over the Swarovski.
I will post when I have tested the SFL'S.
Binocollector
Well-known member
@MikeBR
I have the same problem. I need at least 17-19mm eye relief (sometimes the ocular lenses are too far recessed which costs one or two mm of effective eye relief) to see the whole FoV with my glasses on. So far I didn't find many binos I can use with glasses, even though many manufacturerers, including well known names like Nikon, claim particular binos have enough eye relief, it is often not the case. And something like a Kite 16x42 will have very little eye relief. As a rule of thumb -- less magnification will often have more eye relief. So an 8x42 will usually have better eye relief than a 10x42 of the same model.
So far I only found one 8x32 that worked with my glasses, which is the older, discontinued Meopta Meopro HD 8x32.
I have the same problem. I need at least 17-19mm eye relief (sometimes the ocular lenses are too far recessed which costs one or two mm of effective eye relief) to see the whole FoV with my glasses on. So far I didn't find many binos I can use with glasses, even though many manufacturerers, including well known names like Nikon, claim particular binos have enough eye relief, it is often not the case. And something like a Kite 16x42 will have very little eye relief. As a rule of thumb -- less magnification will often have more eye relief. So an 8x42 will usually have better eye relief than a 10x42 of the same model.
So far I only found one 8x32 that worked with my glasses, which is the older, discontinued Meopta Meopro HD 8x32.
Thanks for your input Philipp. Have you had a chance to try out the SFL 8X30's? I will let you know if they worked for me.
Based on all of this, I’d say to at least check the Curio 7x21, because you will never ever leave them behind due to either weight or bulk, and the bright, crisp image is also accompanied by a quick handling binocular with very smooth focus.
I’m an absolute minimalist user and while I do have a couple pairs of x42 binoculars, it’s the Leica 8x20 Ultravid that is most often with me. That said, this past week I’ve been carrying my ‘other’ favorite, the 7x21 Curio which I had out last night looking at ships, and once again noticed how easily it aligns with my eyes for a full view, even though it disappears into my cargo and is virtually noticeable when not in use.
Hard to regret getting a Curio and not only are they just about impossible to find on the used market, for a very long time they were also difficult to even find new, and they remain the only binocular to date that I’ve bought new and from a dealer.
One other binocular I’ve yet to notice among the other suggestions made that ranks very high among the users in the forum here would be the greatly loved Leica 7x35 Retrovid, which is both smaller and lighter than it looks in the pictures. I don’t have one yet myself, but eventually will based in the few times I’ve looked through one, and my experience with its predecessor, the much older Leitz 7x35, which I own.
Many members here have listed it as their single most favored binocular and its ease of both usage and transport.
Thanks for your very well thought out replies so far in the thread, not to mention your very thorough and enjoyable opening post.
edwincjones
Well-known member
If I were going on a major trip where optics were important,
I would want something bigger than an compact
a 32mm if I were doing a lot of hiking
a 42mm if I did not walk a lot
then go to a dealer with a good selection, note suggestions on this thread, and get the one most comfortable
the best quality that I could reasonable afford.
edj
I would want something bigger than an compact
a 32mm if I were doing a lot of hiking
a 42mm if I did not walk a lot
then go to a dealer with a good selection, note suggestions on this thread, and get the one most comfortable
the best quality that I could reasonable afford.
edj
Hi,
how dare you to omit the mighty Nikon EDG, Nipons answer to the teutonic trinity! I would strongly recommend to keep a close watch for ninjas sent from the land of the rising sun...
But jokes aside, for a light and high quality 8x30 for use with glasses, the SFL is probably your best bet. The NL Pure, SF and EDG are each about 200g more than the 450 of the SFL. There is no Noctivid in 8x30, so technically the Leica "alpha" would be the Ultravid HD plus 8x30... that is a bit dated and certainly not a good option for use with glasses with its 13mm ER.
One could also try the Nikon Monarch HG, a bit less ER than the SFL but a slightly wider fov.
In any case trying the bins is a good idea in any case but with glasses it is kinda mandatory...
Joachim
Small and light “mini-binoculars” are great, as long as you understand and accept the necessary compromises.
The laws of physics are not suggestions.
All binoculars involve compromises ….. you just have to decide how many and which ones you are willing to live with.
(more expensive optics involve fewer compromises)
The laws of physics are not suggestions.
All binoculars involve compromises ….. you just have to decide how many and which ones you are willing to live with.
(more expensive optics involve fewer compromises)
MiddleRiver
Well-known member
I can only speak definitively to what ive personally owned or presently use. My trinovid 8x20 are too small, so I tend to be skeptical of any x25 but maybe I need to try them!
My SFL in 8x40 are ‘easier’ than 8x30’s but take up more space in daypack. I would take either on any trip where I was traveling or hiking. I prefer SFL30 to the Nikon 8x30 (which I also own).
I love full size binos but I’m no longer willing to carry the weight all day. UV and NV are superb but these days I use them on shorter local outings only.
I wear specs fwiw.
My SFL in 8x40 are ‘easier’ than 8x30’s but take up more space in daypack. I would take either on any trip where I was traveling or hiking. I prefer SFL30 to the Nikon 8x30 (which I also own).
I love full size binos but I’m no longer willing to carry the weight all day. UV and NV are superb but these days I use them on shorter local outings only.
I wear specs fwiw.
safaridreaming
Well-known member
We’ve just come back from Kenya where we visited a number of parks and we had Swaro CL 8x25’s for our kids and took Swaro EL 32’s for my wife and I. i personally would not use the 25’s unless it was as backup as the viewing comfort just doesn’t compare to the larger 32’s. I carried my EL32’s everywhere - walks, lunches, dinners, literally everywhere. They hung around my neck and by the time we were a week into the trip I stopped noticing the…
what I’m saying is don’t skimp on binos for the type of a trip and buy a decent size for relaxed and comfortable viewing.
the only thing I would liked wth our EL32‘s is a slightly longer neck strap so we can carry them bandolier style cross body.
what I’m saying is don’t skimp on binos for the type of a trip and buy a decent size for relaxed and comfortable viewing.
the only thing I would liked wth our EL32‘s is a slightly longer neck strap so we can carry them bandolier style cross body.
Attachments
Again, thanks for all the thoughtful replies, information, tips and suggestions. This is really a great forum with amazing people. It has really helped a lot in making this (expensive) purchase (/investment). I'll explain a bit more in detail below, but I am now the proud owner of a pair of Zeiss SFL 8x30's!
Yesterday I stopped work a bit early and went to another shop (recommended by the one I went earlier) to try out the SFL 8X30. Had a really helpfull, knowledgeable birder salesperson, who was patient and also had me try many different models, both cheaper (kite) and more expensive (NL Pure) models so I could experience the difference. They had a lovely garden with sunflowers that attracted small birds, butterfly's, bees, bumblebee's and other insects. But I could also look a lot further to a church in the distance (great idea of the store to have the garden).
The SFL 8X30 were the only pair that I tried (among many swarovski, kite and Leica models) where I had the full view through the bins with my glasses on. I guess I would better switch to lenses, it certainly would be cheaper, but this was for me the major deciding factor. In addition they also felt great and the view was just very impressive. I initially had some issues with the focusing, but then noticed the diopter correction was not on 0. After that I quickly got the hang of it and liked the short throw. I had a spot reserved in my sling-camera bag and although they are not as compact as the CL 8X25'S, they still fitted comfortable, where my 10x42 didn't at all.
I had my mind all set on the CL Pocket 8X25's because they pack down so tiny! The dimensions listed make it look like they are quite close in size compared to the SFL, but that is at a specific inter-pupil-distance-width. When they are packed down, the difference is huge. This almost made me buy the CL's and live with the black ring. However, I packed them down a few times and then tried to get them to be "just right" again for viewing, and it definetly took some time and fiddeling. The double hinge makes it akward to get them right, perhaps especially with glasses? They should make the hinges move together with a gear or something, but now the can move independ wich makes it fiddly. The sales person acknowledge this and stated that in general you set them right when start your hike and then leave them like they are around your neck. I guess you might get used to that but I didn't want to risk it as this would become old very quickly.
I also got to try out the NL Pure 8x32 and I must say I understand why they get such positive feedback. The view through them is on another level, even coming from the already very impressive SFL'S. However they are significantly larger & heavier than the SFL'S, actually similar to my 10x42's. So I didn't spend too much time with them as they were not an option for me. It's hard to recall but I think that even though the eye-relief specification was similar to the SFL's I think I still had a slight narrow black ring. They are also priced way out of my budget.
None of the Kite's or Leica's had I tried had a useable eye-relief distance, so could not be considered.
I had my mind set on the Swarovski CL 8X25 but after having used them next to the SFL's I'm positve I made the best purchase for my requirements. Amazing quality, good eye-relief and still compact/light enough.
8x vs 10x
Just to be sure, I tried many different models in both 8x and 10x. But my initial impressions were once again confirmed that the 8x were the right choice for me. The wider FOV and stable/calm view really convinced me. Initially you think you want higher magnifications, but in reality for my main use the 8x will be just right.
Short distance focusing
One use/specification I had not really considered is the close focusing for watching butteryfly's, bee's, bumblebee or other insects. With the SFL you can focus really close to about 1.5 meter (under 5 feet) which is impressive. Even the NL Pure's only go down to 2meters. A whole new world opened to me!
I will post back after my trip with hopefully a lot of real life experience on our safari trips.
Thanks gain for everybody's great input. Especially those suggesting the SFL 8X30's. To be honest I hadn't considered Zeiss and wouldn't have even tried these without the suggestions.
Yesterday I stopped work a bit early and went to another shop (recommended by the one I went earlier) to try out the SFL 8X30. Had a really helpfull, knowledgeable birder salesperson, who was patient and also had me try many different models, both cheaper (kite) and more expensive (NL Pure) models so I could experience the difference. They had a lovely garden with sunflowers that attracted small birds, butterfly's, bees, bumblebee's and other insects. But I could also look a lot further to a church in the distance (great idea of the store to have the garden).
The SFL 8X30 were the only pair that I tried (among many swarovski, kite and Leica models) where I had the full view through the bins with my glasses on. I guess I would better switch to lenses, it certainly would be cheaper, but this was for me the major deciding factor. In addition they also felt great and the view was just very impressive. I initially had some issues with the focusing, but then noticed the diopter correction was not on 0. After that I quickly got the hang of it and liked the short throw. I had a spot reserved in my sling-camera bag and although they are not as compact as the CL 8X25'S, they still fitted comfortable, where my 10x42 didn't at all.
I had my mind all set on the CL Pocket 8X25's because they pack down so tiny! The dimensions listed make it look like they are quite close in size compared to the SFL, but that is at a specific inter-pupil-distance-width. When they are packed down, the difference is huge. This almost made me buy the CL's and live with the black ring. However, I packed them down a few times and then tried to get them to be "just right" again for viewing, and it definetly took some time and fiddeling. The double hinge makes it akward to get them right, perhaps especially with glasses? They should make the hinges move together with a gear or something, but now the can move independ wich makes it fiddly. The sales person acknowledge this and stated that in general you set them right when start your hike and then leave them like they are around your neck. I guess you might get used to that but I didn't want to risk it as this would become old very quickly.
I also got to try out the NL Pure 8x32 and I must say I understand why they get such positive feedback. The view through them is on another level, even coming from the already very impressive SFL'S. However they are significantly larger & heavier than the SFL'S, actually similar to my 10x42's. So I didn't spend too much time with them as they were not an option for me. It's hard to recall but I think that even though the eye-relief specification was similar to the SFL's I think I still had a slight narrow black ring. They are also priced way out of my budget.
None of the Kite's or Leica's had I tried had a useable eye-relief distance, so could not be considered.
I had my mind set on the Swarovski CL 8X25 but after having used them next to the SFL's I'm positve I made the best purchase for my requirements. Amazing quality, good eye-relief and still compact/light enough.
8x vs 10x
Just to be sure, I tried many different models in both 8x and 10x. But my initial impressions were once again confirmed that the 8x were the right choice for me. The wider FOV and stable/calm view really convinced me. Initially you think you want higher magnifications, but in reality for my main use the 8x will be just right.
Short distance focusing
One use/specification I had not really considered is the close focusing for watching butteryfly's, bee's, bumblebee or other insects. With the SFL you can focus really close to about 1.5 meter (under 5 feet) which is impressive. Even the NL Pure's only go down to 2meters. A whole new world opened to me!
I will post back after my trip with hopefully a lot of real life experience on our safari trips.
Thanks gain for everybody's great input. Especially those suggesting the SFL 8X30's. To be honest I hadn't considered Zeiss and wouldn't have even tried these without the suggestions.
Hi,
congratulations to a great choice - these will serve you well in any situation - unlike pockets, which are great to have in your backpack in a pinch but always leave this nagging feeling that a larger pair would have give a better view and been less fiddly.
Joachim, who treated himself with a used pair of FL 8x32 (was alpha two gens back and is also kinda small and light) a year ago... and loves them a lot...
congratulations to a great choice - these will serve you well in any situation - unlike pockets, which are great to have in your backpack in a pinch but always leave this nagging feeling that a larger pair would have give a better view and been less fiddly.
Joachim, who treated himself with a used pair of FL 8x32 (was alpha two gens back and is also kinda small and light) a year ago... and loves them a lot...
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All of this should be in the birdforum banner. Normally I'll cut quotes down to just the main point I'm responding to, but in this case I just had to bold my favorite part while leaving the first and last intact as well. One of my favorite posts of the entire forum to date.
