Are Herring Gulls a threat to our bio-diversity? (2 Viewers)

[Gullplague]

As you can see, I am new here! I am researching the herring (and similar) gull and am in contact with a gull expert (Peter Rock) from the West Country who has helped Parliamentary debates on the possible threat to sympatric species, other birds, and bio-diversity in general. A colleague in Gloucestershire is working with his MP to take the matter up with DEFRA as it appears that they have no idea how many gulls there are in the UK or the degree to which they have become a threat to other species (including humans). My research is broad in scope but I hope to present enough evidence to prompt the RSPB to take a long hard look at these birds as it appears they have become epidemic in numbers (and not just urban rooftops) and a threat to all life forms with which they come in contact (well, almost). I am not sure how often this topic comes up on here but it would help to have some input as it may help the Parliamentary investigation that may be launched soon via the backbench committee.

 

[MJB]

As you can see, I am new here! I am researching the herring (and similar) gull and am in contact with a gull expert (Peter Rock) from the West Country who has helped Parliamentary debates on the possible threat to sympatric species, other birds, and bio-diversity in general. A colleague in Gloucestershire is working with his MP to take the matter up with DEFRA as it appears that they have no idea how many gulls there are in the UK or the degree to which they have become a threat to other species (including humans). My research is broad in scope but I hope to present enough evidence to prompt the RSPB to take a long hard look at these birds as it appears they have become epidemic in numbers (and not just urban rooftops) and a threat to all life forms with which they come in contact (well, almost). I am not sure how often this topic comes up on here but it would help to have some input as it may help the Parliamentary investigation that may be launched soon via the backbench committee.

Googling 'Peter Rock' provides a fair bit of background to urban gull nesting over the last few decades. It has been mooted that an additional driver of increasing urban gull populations is the reduction in food near traditional non-urban breeding sites. I suggest that if urban gulls are perceived as a real problem in many locations, then at root it is a political problem, because funding research on that scale will probably require a DEFRA contract to RSPB or the BTO - in othe words, public money.

I'm well aware of the possible scale of pro- and anti-gull responses (not necessarily a bad thing), but coming from a fishing town myself, I know that there can be real health risks.

From my admittedly perfunctory Googling efforts, I didn't pick up from the various lists of references the relatively successful attempts to stabilise the large gull population in Gibraltar (Yellow-legged Gull) via the Gibraltar Ornithological and Natural History Society's advice. From memory, the use of narcotic bait against mature females has had an effect on population increase, but there was also a muncipal campaign to place food waste in bins, wheelie-type bins being issued accordingly.

As you state, gulls are adaptable, and appear to reducing the impact of the Gibraltar cull, by nesting more often away from open spaces and sometimes in trees. In the long term, the Gibraltar problem is dependent on improved waste disposal landfill sites in nearby Spain, which also sustain large populations of Black Kite, White Stork and Griffon Vutures! (Not species concerned in the UK urban gull debate!).

It's also possible that some wildlife has benefitted in UK from urban gulls, but that would need research data.
MJB

 

[Trystan]

it appears they have become epidemic in numbers (and not just urban rooftops) and a threat to all life forms with which they come in contact

If its a problem for herring gulls it's certainly a problem for another species. I know which one I'd rather spend tax payers money trying to control too.

I'm not sure you'll find the answers you are looking for on this forum.

 

[Mono]

I first of all thought surely it's 1st October not 1st April. You do seem to have rather made up your mind before commencing your research and the vast majority of links in your accompanying paper seem to be from the local papers rather than any peer reviewed journals. Just as a matter of interest what subjects did you study for your BA and MA as I was wondering what relevance they had to your current ornithological studies, http://www.coastlandschurch.net/ministry-team/

 

[fugl]

You do seem to have rather made up your mind before commencing your research. . .

Indeed, "Gullplague" also being rather suggestive in this regard. And a threat to humans? That's a bit on the strong side for an avian nuisance species (if nuisance it is)..

 

[Steve G]

Were Herring Gulls not placed on the 2009 JNCC UK Red List due to a fall in the breeding population between 1970 & 1988 (estimated at a 42% reduction) with a further drop of c23% between 1988 and 2000 (the UK is thought to hold about 12% of the World's Population)?

 

[Mono]

Herring Gulls and Lesser Black-backed are already covered under a general licence.
http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wml-gl05_tcm6-24150.pdf

 

[Allen S. Moore]

A colleague in Gloucestershire is working with his MP to take the matter up with DEFRA as it appears that they have no idea how many gulls there are in the UK or the degree to which they have become a threat to other species (including humans).

The Joint Nature Conservation Committee's Seabird Monitoring Programme, which looks as if it is part of DEFRA in the UK, will have the answers about population numbers and trends. Their website shows a gradual decrease in numbers in the UK (Steve G has given some details since I started this email).

Of course, what is perceived as an increase is a change of behaviour. For herring gulls this has resulted in the increased numbers breeding and feeding in towns and cities, as well as the increased aggression of some individual gulls.

 

[Gullplague]

The Joint Nature Conservation Committee's Seabird Monitoring Programme, which looks as if it is part of DEFRA in the UK, will have the answers about population numbers and trends. Their website shows a gradual decrease in numbers in the UK (Steve G has given some details since I started this email).

Of course, what is perceived as an increase is a change of behaviour. For herring gulls this has resulted in the increased numbers breeding and feeding in towns and cities, as well as the increased aggression of some individual gulls.

DEFRA seems to be the problem as they place their reliance on information fed to them by the RSPB who have admitted that Seabird 2000 is the most recent study they have on the Herring Gull.

Since my OP, the MP for Cheltenham (a city experiencing a massive growth in gull numbers) has agreed to look into taking the matter to the Backbench Committee. This topic has been debated in the House 3 times since 2008 with MPs drawing attention to the public nuisance and threat to health and safety that exists due to the population increase in urban roof-nesting gulls.

Most bird societies have been against a cull because they do not feel it is necessary given Seabird 2000 and the alleged decline in Herring Gull numbers. However, as there is evidence from scholarly research that these gulls are a threat to sympatric and other species, I believe it is time for an expert like Peter Rock to take a look at the problem. A major obstacle in the way is DEFRA's refusal to believe there is an increase in numbers (Seabird 2000) and their feeling that Rock has been discredited (not sure upon what basis this charge is laid). A comprehensive survey of the UK would run, I am told, over £400,000.

My question to this forum: does anyone have any information that relates to the threat the herring (and similar) gull presents to other birds? I have cited a few articles in my PDF from the Baltic Region, the US, Greece, Rome where predation has been considered to be a threat. There is very little information of this nature in the UK apart from one or two articles referring to threats to Puffins. Second, is there evidence of a change in behaviour as the gulls increase and/or move inland and away from natural habitats and predators? The number of attacks against humans is on the increase which begs the question as to whether attacks against other species is also on the rise. If you Google the gull attacks against whales off Argentina, there are some suggestions of a behaviour change accompanying large increases in gull populations as competition for food becomes more intense. The gulls are already well established in our cities so any steps to reduce their food supply such as dissuading feeding by issuing ASBOs against the feeders, covering tips or using hessian style rubbish bags may only add to the agression. The dearth of material within the UK on behavioural changes may be due to denial or lack of interest or simply a rigid belief that DEFRA and the JNCC are right in claiming a declining population as their 12 year old Seabird 2000 establishes this as fact.

I live in Peacehaven, East Sussex and life is made miserable for the human population due to the noise and attacks. There has been a few incidents of vigilantism with large numbers of gulls being shot. A trial is coming up in Hastings for one such shooter and it will be interesting to see if "self-defence" will be convincing to the jury. Now that Scotland has declared noise and attacks as being a public health risk the door seems to be open for people to retaliate regardless of what Natural England say (no touch, no scare, no disturb, no swear at etc.). Public nuisance (noise, pollution, attacks, swooping etc) is still a criminal offense in England and a refusal to abate it when under a statutory duty to protect health and safety exists may render DEFRA liable for malfeasance.

 

[Gullplague]

I first of all thought surely it's 1st October not 1st April. You do seem to have rather made up your mind before commencing your research and the vast majority of links in your accompanying paper seem to be from the local papers rather than any peer reviewed journals. Just as a matter of interest what subjects did you study for your BA and MA as I was wondering what relevance they had to your current ornithological studies, http://www.coastlandschurch.net/ministry-team/

BA Modern History (UCSD) and BA MA Law (Cambridge). The nuisance aspect and liability of the government in matters of statutory duty have never, to my knowledge, been applied to a "plague" of any species. The government have recently authorised a badger cull and list many other species as being vermin but not the Herring Gull. Many argue that this gull is a "rat with wings" because it is a scavenger, a nuisance, disease spreader and threatens other species. I find myself caught up in the gull question as a result of the large number of people whose lives are affected locally and the sad dissappearance of a pair of doves from my garden due to some rather aggressive gulls on my neighbour's roof that do not want to share their space with anything else. A frantic mob of gulls chased off a Kestrel hovering over the downs near where I live some months ago and there are a few articles on the net reporting that Harris Hawks are no longer effective against gulls as they are simply "mobbed" and driven off. There are some shots on the web of a herring gull attacking a bald eagle and harrassing a sea eagle with impunity. The question that arises: what happens when a species no longer has any predators? I am a keen nature photographer and have spent many happy hours filming birds with twitcher friends. I am now in my second career after many years in law and do not find much of a connection between my new career path and the gull question. The gull problem is serious and I believe DEFRA need to be awake to the threat it presents to bio-diversity and perhaps look overseas for some examples of pre-emptive action to avert an ecological disaster.

 

[James Emerson]

As has been mentioned already, it does rather appear that you have pre-judged the outcome here with your talk of epidemics and threats to life forms, despite admitting to not knowing how large the population is and whether it is increasing or declining. You therefore run the risk of only using evidence that supports your view that there is a need for a cull.

Clearly before any major changes are made there is a need for hard figures on gull numbers and trends - it doesn't matter if Herring Gull numbers have doubled in City X if there is a nationwide decline. I'm sure that gulls are a problem in particular areas, but any response to local issues should be proportional. There are also certain things that are already done with Feral Pigeons such as encouraging tourists to not feed them and putting spikes to prevent roosting on sensitive buildings that may well work with gulls.

To summarise, in my opinion you need some accurate data on gull numbers and a range of opinions from different gull experts before deciding whether there is a widespread problem. Then we can look at other countries and debate the way forwards.

Regards,
James

As you can see, I am new here! I am researching the herring (and similar) gull and am in contact with a gull expert (Peter Rock) from the West Country who has helped Parliamentary debates on the possible threat to sympatric species, other birds, and bio-diversity in general. A colleague in Gloucestershire is working with his MP to take the matter up with DEFRA as it appears that they have no idea how many gulls there are in the UK or the degree to which they have become a threat to other species (including humans). My research is broad in scope but I hope to present enough evidence to prompt the RSPB to take a long hard look at these birds as it appears they have become epidemic in numbers (and not just urban rooftops) and a threat to all life forms with which they come in contact (well, almost). I am not sure how often this topic comes up on here but it would help to have some input as it may help the Parliamentary investigation that may be launched soon via the backbench committee.

 

[joannec]

You do seem to have rather made up your mind before commencing your research and the vast majority of links in your accompanying paper seem to be from the local papers rather than any peer reviewed journals. [/url]

This is true, you do seem to have made up your mind.

I live in Peacehaven, East Sussex and life is made miserable for the human population due to the noise and attacks.

Gullplague: I was going to point out that in Brighton, where your profile says you live, that Brighton and Hove Council have recently introduced large communal bins with heavy lids to minimise the food waste available within the city for gulls to feed on, with I believe, positive results. Perhaps you should be campaigning for Peacehaven to do the same. The proliferation of fast food and take aways, with the resulting litter and discarded uneaten waste, is directly linked to the increased numbers of HGs in areas of human habitation. To my mind HGs as a pest species is absolutely directly related to human behaviour. In other words, cut down the food waste and litter and the HG problem reduces or even disappears.

 

[Allen S. Moore]

I'm not replying to all the points, but have picked out a few that I have a little knowledge on.

DEFRA seems to be the problem as they place their reliance on information fed to them by the RSPB who have admitted that Seabird 2000 is the most recent study they have on the Herring Gull.

I thought that the problem was herring gulls, not DEFRA, which is a UK government agency. Seriously, the information that I referred to is not from the RSPB. Rather, it is from the Seabird Monitoring Programme (SMP) which I mentioned is part of the work of the JNCC which, according to the address of the website of the SMP, is part of DEFRA. Therefore, the information is from one of DEFRA's own groups, not the RSPB. The SMP is carried out by ornithologists, in the widest sense of the word, i.e. by a range of people from amateurs (like me, although I do not monitor herring gulls) to professionals and employed staff.

Most bird societies have been against a cull because they do not feel it is necessary given Seabird 2000 and the alleged decline in Herring Gull numbers.

The website that I referred you to gives a 38% decrease in the breeding population of herring gulls during 2000-2010. This will be from a number of colonies monitored each year. The decrease is not "alleged." Of course, and here is a hint for you, what you should be referring to is an increase in the number of herring gulls nesting in towns and cities at the same time that the population as a whole is decreasing. You will gain more information along those lines by reading the SMP website.

My question to this forum: does anyone have any information that relates to the threat the herring (and similar) gull presents to other birds? I have cited a few articles in my PDF from the Baltic Region, the US, Greece, Rome where predation has been considered to be a threat. There is very little information of this nature in the UK apart from one or two articles referring to threats to Puffins.

With the decrease in the population of herring gulls breeding in more "traditional" nesting sites, i.e. seacliffs, predation on other species of seabirds will also be decreasing. Puffin researchers will be better able to comment than I, but I thought that some great black-backed gulls were predators of puffins, not herring gulls.

If you Google the gull attacks against whales off Argentina, there are some suggestions of a behaviour change accompanying large increases in gull populations as competition for food becomes more intense.

Herring gulls do not occur in Argentina. Your comment about competition for food hits the nail on the head - hasn't human over fishing reduced food availability in most of the world's seas which, in the case of the waters around these islands, is one of the reasons why many herring gulls have abandoned their historical nesting sites and have moved into towns and cities where people provide them with easily accessible food?

 

[Capercaillie71]

DEFRA seems to be the problem as they place their reliance on information fed to them by the RSPB who have admitted that Seabird 2000 is the most recent study they have on the Herring Gull.

Despite the fact that Seabird 2000 is the most recent comprehensive survey, the data from the Seabird monitoring programme shows no evidence of an increase since then. Have a look at the graphs in this link:

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/page-2887

Breeding abundance and productivity have both shown a continuing downward trend since Seabird 2000.

Perhaps there has been a localised increase in roof-nesting gulls where you live and if this is causing a problem for local residents, the general licence could be used to remove eggs/nests on public health grounds. However, there is absolutely no evidence of a national epidemic or plague of gulls causing problems for other wildlife.

 

[dantheman]

In the local paper in Falmouth a few weeks back there was a report that a number of windows had been smashed in town, presumably by gull vigilantes trying to shoot Herring Gulls ...

(I think the number might have been 5, not totally sure though).

 

[Robin Edwards]

Gullplague (a very biased name you've given yourself there if trying to analyse a problem from a balanced perspective), I would add that you are also mixing affect Herring Gulls might have on Atlantic Puffins, with affect on Humans in urban areas where Puffin don't habit.

Herring Gulls are natural predators and opportunists and this hasn't changed very much in many millenia. Whether Herring Gull numbers have reached plague proportions and are wiping out Puffins is also highly unlikely. The question you have is whether Herring Gulls have adapted to urban life to the point that they compete with other urban birds.

 

[Gullplague]

As has been mentioned already, it does rather appear that you have pre-judged the outcome here with your talk of epidemics and threats to life forms, despite admitting to not knowing how large the population is and whether it is increasing or declining. You therefore run the risk of only using evidence that supports your view that there is a need for a cull.

Clearly before any major changes are made there is a need for hard figures on gull numbers and trends - it doesn't matter if Herring Gull numbers have doubled in City X if there is a nationwide decline. I'm sure that gulls are a problem in particular areas, but any response to local issues should be proportional. There are also certain things that are already done with Feral Pigeons such as encouraging tourists to not feed them and putting spikes to prevent roosting on sensitive buildings that may well work with gulls.

To summarise, in my opinion you need some accurate data on gull numbers and a range of opinions from different gull experts before deciding whether there is a widespread problem. Then we can look at other countries and debate the way forwards.

Regards,
James

Agree. This is the approach that DEFRA need to take instead of assuming the herring gull is in decline based on their 12 year old Seabird 2000 Survey. Peter Rock has been turned down for funding and I am working with a few individuals and other entitities to see if we can raise the funding to find out what is happening. I believe a survey will confirm that we have an "epidemic" in gull numbers and that it is a threat to our bio-diversity. The Herring Gull has no natural predators, is opportunistic and agressive, adaptable to almost any environment and with protection afforded by DEFRA it may be little wonder numbers have exploded. But lets get that survey done so we know what is going on.

 

[Gullplague]

Despite the fact that Seabird 2000 is the most recent comprehensive survey, the data from the Seabird monitoring programme shows no evidence of an increase since then. Have a look at the graphs in this link:

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/page-2887

Breeding abundance and productivity have both shown a continuing downward trend since Seabird 2000.

Perhaps there has been a localised increase in roof-nesting gulls where you live and if this is causing a problem for local residents, the general licence could be used to remove eggs/nests on public health grounds. However, there is absolutely no evidence of a national epidemic or plague of gulls causing problems for other wildlife.

Quoting the above link:
Between 1969/70 and 1985-88, the UK herring gull population decreased by 48%. This decline continued between 1987 and 1990, with a subsequent recovery to 1994 (Figure 1). A further drop in abundance is apparent after 2000; although rapid at the start, this decline levelled off for a few years but now appears to be continuing again. At the time of the Seabird 2000 census, around 14% of the population nested on buildings, as compared with natural habitats; a proportion and total number that increased from 1976 (when just 63 pairs nested on roofs) to 1993-951 (10,900) and 1998-2002 (20,000). The abundant food supply in urban areas provided by street litter and insecure refuse bags/bins, combined with abundant safe nesting sites, has probably encouraged this increase1. We do not know the current number of urban nesting gulls.

The RSPB are on record for agreeing that a "remarkable turnaround" in numbers has occured in the Severn Estuary and a doubling in numbers in London since 2005. The bottom line seems to be as bolded above. They simply do not know. My agenda is to get a comprehensive survey up and running because if there is a problem related to gull numbers, we need to know what is happening in order to put togther a plan to deal with it. IN the US the Federal authirities (equivalent to our DEFRA) have long recognised a herring (and similar) gull problem and have documented threats to toer species and bio-diversityh in general. Culls are commonplace in the US to maintain a balance and to protect other species becoming extinct or placed on th endangere dlist by gulls. If there was support from bird societies and some of you on this forum for a comprehensive study it would be a positive step. My concern is that there is too much reliance on DEFRA who are being fed dated information by the RSPB who may be biased given that they are a society to "protect" birds.

 

[Allen S. Moore]

Agree. This is the approach that DEFRA need to take instead of assuming the herring gull is in decline based on their 12 year old Seabird 2000 Survey. Peter Rock has been turned down for funding and I am working with a few individuals and other entitities to see if we can raise the funding to find out what is happening. I believe a survey will confirm that we have an "epidemic" in gull numbers and that it is a threat to our bio-diversity. The Herring Gull has no natural predators, is opportunistic and agressive, adaptable to almost any environment and with protection afforded by DEFRA it may be little wonder numbers have exploded. But lets get that survey done so we know what is going on.

If and when the survey into herring gull numbers goes ahead, at which population level would you expect to be regarded as an "epidemic"?

 

[Gullplague]

This is true, you do seem to have made up your mind.



Gullplague: I was going to point out that in Brighton, where your profile says you live, that Brighton and Hove Council have recently introduced large communal bins with heavy lids to minimise the food waste available within the city for gulls to feed on, with I believe, positive results. Perhaps you should be campaigning for Peacehaven to do the same. The proliferation of fast food and take aways, with the resulting litter and discarded uneaten waste, is directly linked to the increased numbers of HGs in areas of human habitation. To my mind HGs as a pest species is absolutely directly related to human behaviour. In other words, cut down the food waste and litter and the HG problem reduces or even disappears.

In Brighton and Hove they feed off rubbish tips, people eating in public, litter (how do you stop litter bugs?), kindly old folks feeding them in their gardens, worms from field tilling, fishing/crabbing/killing lesser birds and so on. Rubbish is one of many sources and they will not be stopped by eliminating just one food source.

I agree that there are steps local government can take with regard to litter and some councils have begun trial runs with heavy duty hessian-type rubbish bags which are said to be gull proof. This is one of the suggestions I make at the end of my article collection attached to my OP. I also suggest making it a criminal offense to feed gulls as they are birds of persistent habit and will returnn to the point of gratification with great regularity. One or two councils have introduced ASBOs for gull feeding but in order for it to be effective there needs to be a national policy. Again, this needs national discussion and policy that can only come from central government who look to DEFRA for guidance and DEFRA say there is no problem despite nearly all local government health departments saying there is a problem and it is a very big one. So big that Scotland have ordered a widespread cull for reasons based on "mere" public nuisance (noise causing sleep deprivation and other phychiatric problems such as depression, anxiety and avianphobia etc).

The US regularly cull for health/bio-diversity reasons and they seem to be far ahead of us in recognising that a problem with gull numbers exist. As I state in my PDF, it seems only the UK are saying there is not a gull problem and only we claim numbers are in decline. Why is that? What makes the UK unique in seeing declining herring gull numbers and everywhere else where these gulls are part of the natural fauna are seeing growth and spread (inland) with in numbers reaching epidemic proportions. Could it be that the herring (and similar) gull can spread like rats with whom they are sympatric in behaviour and resiliance? These are important questions and there needs to be agreement among a wide range of groups, especially bird groups that a national survey should be funded and implemented urgently. Once the numbers are known then sensible discussion can begion to find a solution if one is needed.