Are they both Common Black Hawk, Drakes Bay, Costa Rica. (1 Viewer)

[Mike Beer]

Hello I took both these photographs today near the beach about a mile from Drakes Bay airpot. Are they both Common Black Hawk, the second bird appears to have 2 white bands on the tail. Mike

 

[THE_FERN]

I'd say common for both. If "second bird" means the one in flight, then I can only see one band (the white tail tip isn't counted). Reasons are: no barring on thighs, yellow cere and face (no grey), single, fairly narrow tail band

 

[AveryBartels]

Both look good for Common imho. The flight shot shows unbarred thighs and only one tail band (the white tail tips usually don't "count" as a tail band when the number of bands on the tail is a relevant field mark)

 

[AveryBartels]

Both look good for Common imho. The flight shot shows unbarred thighs and only one tail band (the white tail tips usually don't "count" as a tail band when the number of bands on the tail is a relevant field mark)

Looks like the fern and I were sharing our thoughts at the same time

 

[Mike Beer]

Thanks all of you I was never very good at counting.
Mike

 

[Andy Adcock]

I'd say common for both. If "second bird" means the one in flight, then I can only see one band (the white tail tip isn't counted). Reasons are: no barring on thighs, yellow cere and face (no grey), single, fairly narrow tail band

Are you comparing with Great or Mangrove? No books here.

 

[THE_FERN]

Are you comparing with Great or Mangrove? No books here.

Great. "Mangrove" isn't there and is usually lumped with common

Edit: raptors of the world says it is there, but Wikipedia says this is out of date and that this form is no closer than Eastern Panama

 

[opisska]

We've seen a number of them around Osa, all were Common, I am a bit skeptical that Great is even present, if so, then it's not easy to find.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Great. "Mangrove" isn't there and is usually lumped with common

Edit: raptors of the world says it is there, but Wikipedia says this is out of date and that this form is no closer than Eastern Panama

Mangrove is there, on the Pacific coast IIRC, at least, it's in the field guide?

 

[THE_FERN]

Mangrove is there, on the Pacific coast IIRC, at least, it's in the field guide?

Which one? ...not in Vallely or Garrigues & Dean 2nd ed. Anyways, I see nothing here to suggest that form

 

[njlarsen]

Mangrove was lumped into Common a good long time ago.
Niels

Mangrove is there, on the Pacific coast IIRC, at least, it's in the field guide?

 

[THE_FERN]

Mangrove was lumped into Common a good long time ago.
Niels

The minor morphological differences include more extensive pale patch at the primary bases and rufous underwing. There's no indication of either here. As with redpolls, perhaps best treated as a form (an ecomorph in this case as restricted to mangroves)

 

[Andy Adcock]

All I'm saying is that the field guide shows Mangrove to be present in a very thin, ribbon of Pacific coastline, lumped or not.

 

[THE_FERN]

All I'm saying is that the field guide shows Mangrove to be present in a very thin, ribbon of Pacific coastline, lumped or not.

Which field guide? The most recent ones I have do not mention the form, and Wikipedia suggests earlier refs which put it in C Rica are wrong.

Edit: given the difficulty of identifying "mangrove" it wouldn't surprise me if even respected sources like G&Dean 1st ed incorrectly give it

 

[Andy Adcock]

Which field guide? The most recent ones I have do not mention the form, and Wikipedia suggests earlier refs which put it in C Rica are wrong.

Edit: given the difficulty of identifying "mangrove" it wouldn't surprise me if even respected sources like G&Dean 1st ed incorrectly give it

No access to my books here but I specifically remember seeing the distribution map in the book, that's what stuck in my mind unless I'm mis-remembering?

 

[Larry Sweetland]

No access to my books here but I specifically remember seeing the distribution map in the book, that's what stuck in my mind unless I'm mis-remembering?

When I went to CR about 25 years ago "the" field guide had Mangrove BH as a full species, and IIRC it was an east coast/west coast type split. It's since then that it's been lumped I think.

 

[Andy Adcock]

When I went to CR about 25 years ago "the" field guide had Mangrove BH as a full species, and IIRC it was an east coast/west coast type split. It's since then that it's been lumped I think.

It was definitely in my 'up to date' (Garrigues, second ed?) field guide when there in 2017.

 

[THE_FERN]

It was definitely in my 'up to date' (Garrigues, second ed?) field guide when there in 2017.

I have the 2nd ed of Garrigues and Dean. It's not there (I noted this above). The mangrove form isn't mentioned in the common black-hawk account, although that species is shown as being on both coasts.

Short story long, neither bird gives any indication of being the mangrove form. Most if not all authorities now regard that as being part of common black-hawk and the most up-to-date information suggests it's found only as far west as E Panama.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I have the 2nd ed of Garrigues and Dean. It's not there (I noted this above). The mangrove form isn't mentioned in the common black-hawk account, although that species is shown as being on both coasts.

Short story long, neither bird gives any indication of being the mangrove form. Most if not all authorities now regard that as being part of common black-hawk and the most up-to-date information suggests it's found only as far west as E Panama.

My error then, apologies.