Are two binoculars better than one? (2 Viewers)

[JosephK]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here on the bird forum, but (as always) I've been reading along for quite a while and I love the fact that I have access to such extensive amount of knowledge and discussion on this relatively niche subject and hobby.

I recently (about a month ago) upgraded from my old Vortex Viper 10x42 to a pair of SFL 8x40. Wow they are awesome! However I was recently offered a really big price discount (more or less 50%) on a brand new pair of SF 10x42’s which put me in a bit of a crisis (not for the reasons you may think) so I am really looking for any experience and help.
My birding trips can generally be divided into two categories: an active ‘hike’ and a more sedate ‘Safari’ where most of it is done by car to various birdwatching towers. I would say i do both approximately 50% of the time.


I live right next to Denmark's largest (lowland) forest, which is where most of my ‘active’ birding trips take place. I walk anything between 2-15 km over 1-5 hours (however in completely flat and not challenging terrain).

Therefore, when I bought new binoculars, I particularly emphasised that they should be lightweight (also 8x). I tended to get a bit of shoulder pain with my old binoculars (mainly from walking with them, not so much from holding them up to my eyes) and unfortunately I still do (though probably a lot less) to some extent with my new 8x40.

At the same time, when I'm on safari, I sometimes regret having compromised on the very best binoculars to save a few grams that wouldn't bother me on such trips anyway (and also having 8x which I don’t think is ideal in these areas).
Now I'm in a situation where I've been offered to buy a pair of SF 10x42s at an incredible price.

This has made me consider whether I should swap my SFL 8x40s for the equivalent 8x30s and go for the SF 10x42s as my ‘heavy’ binoculars when I could afford the extra weight. As I see it (which is more or less purely theoretically) the 8x and lower weight of the SFL 8x30’s would be perfect fore my active use (however at the cost of reduced EP) while the 10x and higher optical quality of the SF 10x42’s would be perfect for my birding trips by car to birding towers etc.
Also I want to add that I have just invested in a kowa 88a telescope so I almost feel guilty about even considering buying ANOTHER binocular right now.



To sum it all up, I am looking for all of you guys out there who has experience with both more active hiking trips and more passive birding trips and how it works with a single all-round binocular (in my case at 640 grams) versus 2 specialised binoculars. I would also really appreciate just anyone who has some experience with the binoculars that I’ve mentioned here and especially something similar to the SFL 8x40 for more active use.

Thanks a lot in advance🙏

 

[Maljunulo]

Would it be okay to ask you the name of the forest?

While your plan sounds sensible, you may not see as much difference between the two as you think you will.

 

[dorubird]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here on the bird forum, but (as always) I've been reading along for quite a while and I love the fact that I have access to such extensive amount of knowledge and discussion on this relatively niche subject and hobby.

I recently (about a month ago) upgraded from my old Vortex Viper 10x42 to a pair of SFL 8x40. Wow they are awesome! However I was recently offered a really big price discount (more or less 50%) on a brand new pair of SF 10x42’s which put me in a bit of a crisis (not for the reasons you may think) so I am really looking for any experience and help.
My birding trips can generally be divided into two categories: an active ‘hike’ and a more sedate ‘Safari’ where most of it is done by car to various birdwatching towers. I would say i do both approximately 50% of the time.


I live right next to Denmark's largest (lowland) forest, which is where most of my ‘active’ birding trips take place. I walk anything between 2-15 km over 1-5 hours (however in completely flat and not challenging terrain).

Therefore, when I bought new binoculars, I particularly emphasised that they should be lightweight (also 8x). I tended to get a bit of shoulder pain with my old binoculars (mainly from walking with them, not so much from holding them up to my eyes) and unfortunately I still do (though probably a lot less) to some extent with my new 8x40.

At the same time, when I'm on safari, I sometimes regret having compromised on the very best binoculars to save a few grams that wouldn't bother me on such trips anyway (and also having 8x which I don’t think is ideal in these areas).
Now I'm in a situation where I've been offered to buy a pair of SF 10x42s at an incredible price.

This has made me consider whether I should swap my SFL 8x40s for the equivalent 8x30s and go for the SF 10x42s as my ‘heavy’ binoculars when I could afford the extra weight. As I see it (which is more or less purely theoretically) the 8x and lower weight of the SFL 8x30’s would be perfect fore my active use (however at the cost of reduced EP) while the 10x and higher optical quality of the SF 10x42’s would be perfect for my birding trips by car to birding towers etc.
Also I want to add that I have just invested in a kowa 88a telescope so I almost feel guilty about even considering buying ANOTHER binocular right now.



To sum it all up, I am looking for all of you guys out there who has experience with both more active hiking trips and more passive birding trips and how it works with a single all-round binocular (in my case at 640 grams) versus 2 specialised binoculars. I would also really appreciate just anyone who has some experience with the binoculars that I’ve mentioned here and especially something similar to the SFL 8x40 for more active use.

Thanks a lot in advance🙏

The new 8x32 binoculars are too big to justify next to the SF Victory 10x42. If it were the only binocular in the kit, a Victory 8x32 would be enough. But if you want to have two binoculars, I say that an SFL 8x30 would make the best team next to an SF Victory 10x42, just to feel the difference in size and have options for different situations from two extreme worlds. When it comes to size, the SF 8x32 is the middle ground, and the SFL 8x30 and SF 10x42 are the extremes. I personally have the Zeiss SF Victory 10x42 paired with the Nikon HG 8x30 (similar in size to the SFL 8x30) and I reÿally feel the usefulness of each one for different situations. In this case two binoculars are better than one!

 

[Dennis Mau]

I would not trade the SFL 8x40 for the SFL 8x30 just to save a few ounces. The SFL 8x40 is already very light at 22 oz. the way it is, and it will take in twice the light and have much easier eye placement than the SFL 8x30. Besides, you will lose money trading the SFL 8x40 for a SFL 8x30 because you will have to sell the SFL 8x40 for less than you paid for it unless you can return it. There is nothing wrong at all in buying the SF 10x42. Having a 8x and a 10x are an ideal combination really because when you are doing more close in birding you can use the 8x and have the advantage of the bigger FOV, brighter image in low light, and better DOF and you can use the SF 10x42 for more distant birding or when you want to see more detail for difficult ID's.

You say your hiking is done in a lowland forest which can be darker than more open country birding and is not that hard or long, so I think the advantage of the bigger aperture of the SFL 8x40 versus the advantage of the lighter weight of SFL 8x30 would be more important. You don't mention if you bird much in low light, which would give the SFL 8x40 another advantage over the SFL 8x30. I think you would miss the eye placement comfort and versatility of the SFL 8x40 if you downgraded to the SFL 8x30 also. For those reasons, I would keep the SFL 8x40 and buy the SF 10x42. It sounds like the perfect combination to me.

 

[42za]

I think that you should keep your old binocular.

 

[Rg548]

Whatever you choose, I think it best to have a decent gap between two optics.
I have quite a gap, by having an 8x20, and an 8x42.

But i want the 8x20 for mountain biking, and paddleboarding, and having something with me always, even city breaks, so I put up with its' awkwardness, and appreciate its' usefullness. Sometimes I just can't be arsed to carry bigger binos, but still rather have 'something' just incase. Also, it never diasappoints, as I think it punches well above expectations, making it a pleasure in many ways.

But then I pick up my 8x42 HT's, and get blown away by the bigger experience, brightness, ease of viewing etc.
They both 'wow' me in equal measure.
But I reckon the little 8x20s spend more time 'in use' on balance because they are always in my pocket, or rucksack.... I use them a lot...

And for what it's worth, I don't think i've ever missed anything that I would have seen had I got my HT's with me instead.

I did own 8x32 and 8x42's at one point, but the difference to me was too close, if i was going to carry the 8x32s I felt I may as well carry the 8x42s, so the 8x32s became redundant.
So for the 3rd time I purchased 8x20's......

Welcome to the merry go round

 

[Rg548]

Just as another suggestion... if you are walking in dark forest, have you considered the Swarovski Habicht range,
The 8x30 is sensational, and the glare issues will not be a problem under canopy, and they are plenty bright enough as well as being lightweight.

And the 7x42 is on another level for looking into wooded areas..... I spent some time trying one out in exactly those conditions. It's an incredible experience, albeit, narrow field of view, and old fashioned ergonomics etc..... BUT the view.... the optics.... just incredible.
I've never been so close to pulling the trigger on a purchase and then holding off..... I still think about it now (but my HTs really hit the mark in those conditions too)

 

[Bentley03]

But then I pick up my 8x42 HT's, and get blown away by the bigger experience, brightness, ease of viewing etc.

This is such a huge part of the binocular compromise. If you are able to take/carry a larger aperture binocular, assuming it fits you properly, the reward is that 'bigger experience' you reference.

I'm increasingly upsizing to larger aperture binoculars on my walks, to enjoy the luxury of that more comfortable and relaxed view. I'm no longer of the opinion that in a combination (or pairing) of binoculars owned, that the most important element of the combination of formats is having different magnifications, but rather different apertures (and therefore exit pupils).

Welcome to the merry go round

Erm...yes, I can feel the OP peering over the edge of that precipice too...🤭

 

[Isthatascratch?]

This is such a huge part of the binocular compromise. If you are able to take/carry a larger aperture binocular, assuming it fits you properly, the reward is that 'bigger experience' you reference.

I'm increasingly upsizing to larger aperture binoculars on my walks, to enjoy the luxury of that more comfortable and relaxed view. I'm no longer of the opinion that in a combination (or pairing) of binoculars owned, that the most important element of the combination of formats is having different magnifications, but rather different apertures (and therefore exit pupils).



Erm...yes, I can feel the OP peering over the edge of that precipice too...🤭

I feel I have reached a similar conclusion…8x42, 10x42 and 12x50…Swarovski Bread and Leica Noctivid filling!! With A couple of Habichts for snacks!!!

 

[normjackson]

I tended to get a bit of shoulder pain with my old binoculars (mainly from walking with them, not so much from holding them up to my eyes) and unfortunately I still do (though probably a lot less) to some extent with my new 8x40.

Are you sure you've done all possible research on ways of alleviating this? Quite a few threads here on BF on different ways of carrying binoculars which might help including bandolero style, harnesses, attaching straps to backpack, attaching helium balloons (just checking you're still reading)...

Not sure a 10x42 is going to seem a significant magnification upgrade over 8x40 while you have your Kowa 88a sitting next to you on your "Safaris".

 

[adhoc]

An option for the lighter bino: Z. Victory Pocket 8x25, superb optics, FoV 7.4 deg., 11-12 cm, 290 g, goes even into a pants pocket. Would suggest you try.

Adding in edit after reading Peter.home and Hermann below: am not saying you need two binos (your first qn.) but offering an option if you have to have a second and lighter in addition to an SF 10x42 (second qn.) Hermann, yes, min. 10, but I think you forgot to add, each min. USD 2999!

 

[Peter.home]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here on the bird forum, but (as always) I've been reading along for quite a while and I love the fact that I have access to such extensive amount of knowledge and discussion on this relatively niche subject and hobby.

I recently (about a month ago) upgraded from my old Vortex Viper 10x42 to a pair of SFL 8x40. Wow they are awesome! However I was recently offered a really big price discount (more or less 50%) on a brand new pair of SF 10x42’s which put me in a bit of a crisis (not for the reasons you may think) so I am really looking for any experience and help.
My birding trips can generally be divided into two categories: an active ‘hike’ and a more sedate ‘Safari’ where most of it is done by car to various birdwatching towers. I would say i do both approximately 50% of the time.


I live right next to Denmark's largest (lowland) forest, which is where most of my ‘active’ birding trips take place. I walk anything between 2-15 km over 1-5 hours (however in completely flat and not challenging terrain).

Therefore, when I bought new binoculars, I particularly emphasised that they should be lightweight (also 8x). I tended to get a bit of shoulder pain with my old binoculars (mainly from walking with them, not so much from holding them up to my eyes) and unfortunately I still do (though probably a lot less) to some extent with my new 8x40.

At the same time, when I'm on safari, I sometimes regret having compromised on the very best binoculars to save a few grams that wouldn't bother me on such trips anyway (and also having 8x which I don’t think is ideal in these areas).
Now I'm in a situation where I've been offered to buy a pair of SF 10x42s at an incredible price.

This has made me consider whether I should swap my SFL 8x40s for the equivalent 8x30s and go for the SF 10x42s as my ‘heavy’ binoculars when I could afford the extra weight. As I see it (which is more or less purely theoretically) the 8x and lower weight of the SFL 8x30’s would be perfect fore my active use (however at the cost of reduced EP) while the 10x and higher optical quality of the SF 10x42’s would be perfect for my birding trips by car to birding towers etc.
Also I want to add that I have just invested in a kowa 88a telescope so I almost feel guilty about even considering buying ANOTHER binocular right now.



To sum it all up, I am looking for all of you guys out there who has experience with both more active hiking trips and more passive birding trips and how it works with a single all-round binocular (in my case at 640 grams) versus 2 specialised binoculars. I would also really appreciate just anyone who has some experience with the binoculars that I’ve mentioned here and especially something similar to the SFL 8x40 for more active use.

Thanks a lot in advance🙏

You get a lot of advice on here leaning towards 2+ pairs of binoculars for birding.
It never makes any sense to me, as when you are birding you will be constantly drifting from open habitat to shady woodland, long walks, stakeouts, low light. etc. Sure there is a best and different binocular for all of these scenarios, but unless you carry them all with you! you typically won't have the opportunity to switch binoculars halfway thru your walk.
So, I'd recommend get the best single pair of binoculars you can for your longest walks / most demanding conditions; and they will work perfectly well for all other situations.
Whether it's 8x20 or 12x56, you really aren't going to be missing out on birds. In over 30 years, I can't think of any example where I missed a bird thru the "wrong" binoculars. Not having a scope with me, now that's a different matter.

 

[Isthatascratch?]

You get a lot of advice on here leaning towards 2+ pairs of binoculars for birding.
It never makes any sense to me, as when you are birding you will be constantly drifting from open habitat to shady woodland, long walks, stakeouts, low light. etc. Sure there is a best and different binocular for all of these scenarios, but unless you carry them all with you! you typically won't have the opportunity to switch binoculars halfway thru your walk.
So, I'd recommend get the best single pair of binoculars you can for your longest walks / most demanding conditions; and they will work perfectly well for all other situations.
Whether it's 8x20 or 12x56, you really aren't going to be missing out on birds. In over 30 years, I can't think of any example where I missed a bird thru the "wrong" binoculars. Not having a scope with me, now that's a different matter.

I don’t believe the advice is to take them all with you though. I think people are saying they like to take one, but have options.

In the end some seem to use one specific pair the majority of time as their journey continues in bird / nature / sky watching, it can be an evolution.

For example, I see some are now using 12’s the majority of the time.

 

[Hermann]

This is Birdforum. So many people here will advise you to get a minimum of 10 binoculars.

But you need only one + a spare pair on long trips abroad. Just in case you drop your main pair.

Hermann

 

[Isthatascratch?]

This is Birdforum. So many people here will advise you to get a minimum of 10 binoculars.

But you need only one + a spare pair on long trips abroad. Just in case you drop your main pair.

Hermann

C’mon 12 pairs is my minimum

 

[Bentley03]

C’mon 12 pairs is my minimum

Really? Can't imagine how I'd be able to limit myself to just 12 pairs...🤔

 

[Dennis Mau]

You get a lot of advice on here leaning towards 2+ pairs of binoculars for birding.
It never makes any sense to me, as when you are birding you will be constantly drifting from open habitat to shady woodland, long walks, stakeouts, low light. etc. Sure there is a best and different binocular for all of these scenarios, but unless you carry them all with you! you typically won't have the opportunity to switch binoculars halfway thru your walk.
So, I'd recommend get the best single pair of binoculars you can for your longest walks / most demanding conditions; and they will work perfectly well for all other situations.
Whether it's 8x20 or 12x56, you really aren't going to be missing out on birds. In over 30 years, I can't think of any example where I missed a bird thru the "wrong" binoculars. Not having a scope with me, now that's a different matter.

Yes, but often times your birding is in different areas. For example, if you know you are going birding in a heavily wooded area or in a tropical rainforest with canopy a 8x42 would be best but if you are birding in more open areas like along the coast where you are trying to see birds at great distances the 10x42 would be best. Maybe you hike long distances in the daytime, where a 8x32 or 10x32 would be preferred because of the light weight, and you don't need the bigger EP. There is a perfect tool for every job.

 

[JosephK]

First of all thank you everyone for helping me🙌

Would it be okay to ask you the name of the forest?

While your plan sounds sensible, you may not see as much difference between the two as you think you will.

Of course. The forest is called Rold Skov and to be precise most of my birdwatching here is not in the dark closed canopy forest but walking around to the different open heaths, bogs, lakes and forest meadows and watching the birds that are there. So I don’t think the lack of lighting in a SFL 8x30 compared to the 40’s would be a huge issue more so the smaller EP and hence lower viewing comfort. But I am thinking whether the potential removal of shoulder discomfort that going from 640 to 460 grams might give would be worth the sacrifice in EP.

I think that you should keep your old binocular.

The problem is that after buying the SFL I don’t feel I would rather use viper in ANY scenarios, despite the extra power and aperture since the optical quality is significantly lower.

Are you sure you've done all possible research on ways of alleviating this? Quite a few threads here on BF on different ways of carrying binoculars which might help including bandolero style, harnesses, attaching straps to backpack, attaching helium balloons (just checking you're still reading)...

Not sure a 10x42 is going to seem a significant magnification upgrade over 8x40 while you have your Kowa 88a sitting next to you on your "Safaris".

No I definitely think I could try some things here. I always carried my binos with the original straps but used them bandolero style since I don’t like them bouncing on my chest.

You get a lot of advice on here leaning towards 2+ pairs of binoculars for birding.
It never makes any sense to me, as when you are birding you will be constantly drifting from open habitat to shady woodland, long walks, stakeouts, low light. etc. Sure there is a best and different binocular for all of these scenarios, but unless you carry them all with you! you typically won't have the opportunity to switch binoculars halfway thru your walk.
So, I'd recommend get the best single pair of binoculars you can for your longest walks / most demanding conditions; and they will work perfectly well for all other situations.
Whether it's 8x20 or 12x56, you really aren't going to be missing out on birds. In over 30 years, I can't think of any example where I missed a bird thru the "wrong" binoculars. Not having a scope with me, now that's a different matter.

Maybe you’re right. I have been wondering whether I would be able enjoy the SFL 8x30’s if I were to buy the SF 10x42’s but mostly because of the gap in optical quality and not so much aperture.

I would say my use cases kind of eliminate the problem of having to switch between the different binoculars though. This is because my trips are so clearly divided from the start. I know when leaving home whether I’m going for a reasonably long hike or driving directly to a birdwatching tower (often in a local reserve called Lille Vildmose) so I actually don’t think this would ever really be a problem for me.


I think right now I am kinda leaning towards buying the SF’s since the offer is just too good to refuse and I would be able to sell them immediately for a higher price. Maybe I am going to stick with the SFL 40’s for a little while and try and see if paired with some other straps the pain will go away. However i do think if i only had the SF’s right now I would have gone for the SFL 30’s as my “hiking binoculars” since those 460 grams just seem ideal here. Maybe I should also check out the Habicht 8x30’s or other similar binos. They’re still a bit lighter than my 40’s and significantly cheaper than the SFL’s (atleast here in Denmark)

 

[Paultricounty]

And of course a few doubles of the ones you really like. 🤪😉

 

[GrampaTom]

Are two binoculars better than one?​

Well, yes... for me.

Few things to think about:

1. How big are you, especially your hands? I find the SFL 830 too small, (large hands). While I like the Conquest HD 832 it took some time to figure out where to put my hands. The NL 832 is a super nice fit for me, with the wasp waist adding to the length for a super nice feel. The SFL 840 and NL 832 are almost identical in length and weight. The SF 832, (to my mind) having a bit more unneeded length for a 32. It's not just about the weight. Your hands, your choice. That SFL 840 is pretty darn nice.

2. Do integrate the scope into your thinking. Its utility cant be overstated in certain places. Here we have 2 distinct birding seasons. The winter waterfowl, shorebird and raptor migration from the north, over the water of San Francisco Bay, the Pacific and inland reservoirs makes an 832 and scope about a perfect pair. The bino is unquestionably superior for getting on birds and discovering the adjacent terrain that helps you find the bird when you change to scope. But 8 or even 10X is not enough to cover the range offered by all the water, shoreline here. It's not just about terrain but season.

3. By all means check out a harness. I've never carried a bino around my neck, preferring Bandolier style, but switching to harness changed everything. These are especially nice with scope and tripod as you must fuss, pay attention moving between binos and scope.

4. The explanation for a second bino (for me) comes with spring/summer, when the waterfowl and shore birds have mostly returned north. We still bird several days a week hunting for those birds that have remained and switching to the smaller tweetie birds that are here then. Still visit open terrain but turn more towards the closer in, shoreline or surrounding brushy stuff for then. Always hopeful, I switch to a 1042. The scope stays home. I like the weight of the 42 as I believe it helps steady the view. The harness about eliminates the weight concern while walking about. Finding and tracking birds with higher mag is a learnable thing. Gotta think you'll love the SF1042 on a safari. I think often enough about a 12 for this season.

5. Don't be taken in too much by the discussion here (BF) of on paper FOVs. I can elaborate, but this is long enough.