Avian flu 2023 (and earlier) (1 Viewer)

[Dyrlege]

I thought it might be helpful if we had a thread covering avian influenza and consequences, as all the official stuff is based on laboratory testing and confirmation which means that 1) someone has to collect a sample, and 2) it has to be analyzed.
So: if you hear of or have experienced or seen what you believe to be either reduced numbers of a species or abnormal death rates (in Vadsoe in NE Norway where I was CVO forty years ago, they have now found over 15000 dead kittiwakes, confirmed due to H5N1 HPAI (avian flu)), please post and comment. This will be helpful in understanding what is happening.

Per Leines Lausund DVM MPH

 

[maplekong]

Hello! This thread is a good idea. In Northern Ireland we appear to have been relatively untouched so far by avian influenza, the gannets and terns are as numerous as ever. I think this is because we rarely have large congregations where it can spread easily.

In Manchester, where I just moved, a pigeon appears to have died of bird flu (no visible injuries but was lying dead on one of my neighbour's concrete slab above their doorway and was eaten by a magpie the next day).

 

[Dyrlege]

What about black-headed gulls?

 

[maplekong]

They appear to be doing well. I haven't seen any dead or sick-looking birds, or any reduction in numbers.

 

[loiner]

At my local patch near Leeds, West Yorks (St. Aidan's RSPB) we looked as though we could be on for a record number of breeding Black-headed Gulls early in the season (~5k) but then birds began dying in large numbers. A figure of 800 corpses has appeared in the press a few times but we estimate the number to be at least two or three times that. The final number of breeding birds was about half the initial estimate. Fortunately few fresh corpses have been seen recently, with no evidence of a die-off of juvenile gulls.
Last year the species mainly affected were Mute Swans and Greylag and Canada Geese, with few gulls, whereas this year the waterfowl have been largely unaffected.

 

[maplekong]

Waterfowl have been unaffected for me too.

 

[Warixenjalka]

In Finland (especially western parts), mostly Black-headed Gulls and Common Terns and also some Waterfowl have been found dead by avian flu. It has been assumed that it has also spread to fur farms from birds. But there are different opinions, some think that it spread from animal feed to birds.

Anyway - fur farming should be stopped in Finland as well (as they have done in many - more civilized - European countries).

 

[Andy Lakin]

Do the corpses get eaten by other birds? You would think.that it would be a very easy meal, but I wondered if birds had some kind of instinct not to. I would imagine that mammalian carnivorous would benefit greatly especially when breeding (if they aren't affected by it). Have the experts worked out if surviving Avian Flu allows birds to survive contracting it a second time?

 

[Dyrlege]

Do the corpses get eaten by other birds? You would think.that it would be a very easy meal, but I wondered if birds had some kind of instinct not to. I would imagine that mammalian carnivorous would benefit greatly especially when breeding (if they aren't affected by it). Have the experts worked out if surviving Avian Flu allows birds to survive contracting it a second time?

Survivors have an immunity to similar (and the same) flu viruses, which works like a vaccine (except for the disease they have to go through) and confers a resistance to new disease caused by related viruses.

 

[aeshna5]

Do the corpses get eaten by other birds? You would think.that it would be a very easy meal, but I wondered if birds had some kind of instinct not to. I would imagine that mammalian carnivorous would benefit greatly especially when breeding (if they aren't affected by it). Have the experts worked out if surviving Avian Flu allows birds to survive contracting it a second time?

Yes corpses do get eaten by other animals. Quite a few White-tailed Eagles have succumbed to eating diseased birds & some mammals such as Mink, seals & Fox seem to have contracted it

 

[Dyrlege]

And this is one of the big problems with HPAI (highly pathogenic avian influenza): it is not confined to one species or animal group, and it mutates readily. Most flu viruses start off in Chinese wetlands and develop in the interface between pigs, humans and ducks/waterfowl an after a while (read: massive mutation) you get a lineage that has panzootic (and pandemic with H5N1-relatives). The "Spanish flu" was probably an H1N1 originating in birds, spreading among swine and waterfowl, travelling the Silk road to the west, crossing the Atlantic, finding and developing in US military camps, coming back to Europe with US soldiers and finding a perfect environment in the trenches of WW1 to infect and spread and cause death and disease. And spread further in several waves.
Influenza is s true zoonosis, thrives and develops in a variety of animals and causes outbreaks where the distance between individuals is short.
COVID-19 was just the shadow of what a real pandemic influenza would look like.
Cheerful, isn't it?

 

[maplekong]

As an offside, is there any record of it being able to spread to squirrels? That would be a right mess. I was thinking abut it when my mum said something about bats, birds and rodents (including squirrels, which aren't really rodents but anyway-) having more pathogens and being able to spread them because of their higher metabolism, and body temperature. I'm not sure how much of this is right, but a high body temperature keeps the pathogens in check in a way, meaning they are very notorious vectors of disease? Correct me here. So if foxes and mink can get it, could squirrels?

 

[Dyrlege]

As an offside, is there any record of it being able to spread to squirrels? That would be a right mess. I was thinking abut it when my mum said something about bats, birds and rodents (including squirrels, which aren't really rodents but anyway-) having more pathogens and being able to spread them because of their higher metabolism, and body temperature. I'm not sure how much of this is right, but a high body temperature keeps the pathogens in check in a way, meaning they are very notorious vectors of disease? Correct me here. So if foxes and mink can get it, could squirrels?

First, squirrels do belong to the order "rodentia" with a suborder of their own, so you may safely include them in "rodents".
I've not heard of squirrels or rodents bring infected, but the I don't think very many have looked closely into cause of death in squirrels. There is not much precise knowledge about which zoonoses squirrels carry.
Influensa viruses are not very species specific, so the answer is "We don't know"
Oh, and birds have a higher body temperature than mammals, one of the reasons they don't die from anthrax.
Per

 

[maplekong]

Another sick pigeon today at the park, no obvious signs of sickness but wouldn't move and looked puffed up. I threw some porridge oats at it and that didn't work. Probably avian flu again. Am thinking it may spread to gulls, waterfowl and other pigeons who hang around that area. Haven't seen any pigeons like that in my thirteen years in Northern Ireland, but already two sick birds here in Manchester.

 

[aeshna5]

Another sick pigeon today at the park, no obvious signs of sickness but wouldn't move and looked puffed up. I threw some porridge oats at it and that didn't work. Probably avian flu again. Am thinking it may spread to gulls, waterfowl and other pigeons who hang around that area. Haven't seen any pigeons like that in my thirteen years in Northern Ireland, but already two sick birds here in Manchester.

Haven't heard of pigeons with bird flu, though I'm not suggesting they can't get it. Perhaps as likely to be some other disease? Without testing you're only guessing.

 

[Dyrlege]

Another sick pigeon today at the park, no obvious signs of sickness but wouldn't move and looked puffed up. I threw some porridge oats at it and that didn't work. Probably avian flu again. Am thinking it may spread to gulls, waterfowl and other pigeons who hang around that area. Haven't seen any pigeons like that in my thirteen years in Northern Ireland, but already two sick birds here in Manchester.

Is there any organised testing?
Per

 

[Dyrlege]

The European Centre for diseases control Factsheet on A(H5N1)

 

[Dyrlege]

'Highly pathogenic' Bird Flu outbreak confirmed at Scots farm

A BIRD Flu outbreak has been confirmed at a Scots farm. Scotland’s Chief Veterinary Officer has confirmed “highly pathogenic Avian Influenza” was found on the property. The farm, …

url2151.isid.org

 

[maplekong]

Is there any organised testing?
Per

I probably won't say anymore in this thread, no testing... how serious does an outbreak have to be to report it?

 

[dantheman]

I probably won't say anymore in this thread, no testing... how serious does an outbreak have to be to report it?

1 bird ...

Avian flu

Warning: This webpage contains videos and images of dead and sick birds.

www.rspb.org.uk

'How to report', first item in the FAQ near bottom of page.


I think they want to know about any dead (or dying) and obviously unexplained birds (you normally don't see that many dead birds, apart from road casualties - birds generally quietly die somewhere in the undergrowth etc). I don't know how much they would relish ALL records or whether they would treat each as an emergency now it seems to be everywhere possibly, but they can make that decision once been reported I guess ...