Blackcap and garden warbler (1 Viewer)

[JayFeatherPL]

How can I tell apart a blackcap's song from a garden warbler's song if I don't hear the blackcap's fluty notes at the end? For example in this recording. It's a blackcap, but it doesn't end its song with fluty notes just like a garden warbler. If I didn't know that only blackcaps are in my area I would guess it's a garden warbler. And actually I can hear these blackcaps without a fluty end quite often So what's the difference between a garden warbler's song and a non-fluty blackcap's song?

 

[KenM]

Irrespective of tempo regarding Blackcap the fluted aspect always comes through (a good recording by the way👍).
Garden Warbler can also adjust tempo but to my ear never matches the fluted quality of the former.
Also, there is often an almost “manic” delivery component (fast and scratchy) that one doesn’t get with the former.
Overtime you’ll be able to “pick-up” on these subtleties.

Cheers

 

[PYRTLE]

Irrespective of tempo regarding Blackcap the fluted aspect always comes through (a good recording by the way👍).
Garden Warbler can also adjust tempo but to my ear never matches the fluted quality of the former.
Also, there is often an almost “manic” delivery component (fast and scratchy) that one doesn’t get with the former.
Overtime you’ll be able to “pick-up” on these subtleties.

Cheers

Agree with Ken and well described. Blackcap is harsher, scratcher and rushed....GW is richer, smoother and gentler in pace though excluding much depth in sound.

 

[KenM]

Agree with Ken and well described. Blackcap is harsher, scratcher and rushed....GW is richer, smoother and gentler in pace though excluding much depth in sound.

……..thank god for the hearing aids!🤣

 

[01101001]

I always wait for the fluted phrase. Simple, but it works for me.

 

[Butty]

Blackcap is harsher, scratcher and rushed....GW is richer, smoother and gentler in pace

The opposite.
And... Blackcaps you see, garden warblers you don't.

 

[PYRTLE]

The opposite.
And... Blackcaps you see, garden warblers you don't.

Perhaps for you Butty, but not in my aged memory bank. Potato /Potarto.

 

[Southern Viking]

Personally Blackcap have always seemed more rushed than Garden Warbler to me as PYRTYL says, but it might just be that Blackcap song rushes between lower notes and higher notes whereas Garden Warbler seem more measured.

It's not infallible but I've always thought Garden Warbler sound almost like a Blackbird doing a Blackcap song, at least in terms of the measured pitch. There are exceptions though and I doubt there are many folk who live within the range of both species who haven't got it wrong at some points, no matter how experienced they are with both!

 

[dantheman]

Hmmm ... I don't really recall either being that harsh or scratchy ... ;-) (Guess it's relative, compared to each other, but, compared to other warbler species ... )


Haven't heard Garden Warbler yet this year, but I recall them being more continuously 'bubbling' , babbling along in more or less of a monotone whereas Blackcap is more 'conversational', with highs and lows (varied, as others say), like a richer fluty Dunnock perhaps?

 

[Southern Viking]

Hmmm ... I don't really recall either being that harsh or scratchy ... ;-) (Guess it's relative, compared to each other, but, compared to other warbler species ... )


Haven't heard Garden Warbler yet this year, but I recall them being more continuously 'bubbling' , babbling along in more or less of a monotone whereas Blackcap is more 'conversational', with highs and lows (varied, as others say), like a richer fluty Dunnock perhaps?

Sounds a good description. I've never considered either particularly harsh or scratchy either in the grand scheme of Sylvia songs. I still remember my Dad describing Garden Warbler as having a "farty" note in it's song when he was listening to both when I was a lad

Must admit, from then until now I could never quite hear that (maybe it was one of those "blame it on the dog/garden warbler" moments?)

 

[01101001]

Much of it has been said already, but here are some links (esp. the first one):

Part 5: Hamish taught me all he knows about bird sounds - The Sound Approach

soundapproach.co.uk

6 - Which came first? - The Sound Approach

soundapproach.co.uk

 

[pianoman]

I hear lots of Blackcaps where I am, but very few GW. My first thoughts when listening to the OP was "not a Blackcap" but from the links on 01101001's post (can I call you Hex69 for short?) the adult songs for GW and BC are much more similar than I realized. But the OP song doesn't sound very like either, so perhaps a subsong of some kind?

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Blackcap is harsher, scratcher and rushed....GW is richer, smoother and gentler in pace though excluding much depth in sound.

You have it the wrong way 'round, surely.

A Garden Warbler is like a half-way house between the fluty sound of the Blackcap and the scratchy, more hurried sound of the like of Whitethroats.

To the OP: I'd imagine that a search on You Tube will produce the songs of these three birds and the distinction between them will be pretty clear.

 

[PYRTLE]

You have it the wrong way 'round, surely.

A Garden Warbler is like a half-way house between the fluty sound of the Blackcap and the scratchy, more hurried sound of the like of Whitethroats.

To the OP: I'd imagine that a search on You Tube will produce the songs of these three birds and the distinction between them will be pretty clear.

Not from my memory bank, as I mentioned to Butty. Always found that Blackcaps were / are louder, wider in range with some "attacking and fairly violent" chords whilst GW seemed gentler, smoother and a bit like gargling with honey.
A bit like Pete Townsend or Robert Fripp.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Not from my memory bank, as I mentioned to Butty. Always found that Blackcaps were / are louder, wider in range with some "attacking and fairly violent" chords whilst GW seemed gentler, smoother and a bit like gargling with honey.
A bit like Pete Townsend or Robert Fripp.

Fair enough, Pat, I can't dispute how you interpret birds' songs. On the other hand, I reckon your view of the Blackcap versus the Garden Warbler songs would be in a very, very small minority opinion.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

How can I tell apart a blackcap's song from a garden warbler's song if I don't hear the blackcap's fluty notes at the end? For example in this recording. It's a blackcap, but it doesn't end its song with fluty notes just like a garden warbler. If I didn't know that only blackcaps are in my area I would guess it's a garden warbler. And actually I can hear these blackcaps without a fluty end quite often So what's the difference between a garden warbler's song and a non-fluty blackcap's song?

Jay,

Did you see this bird?

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

But the OP song doesn't sound very like either

That was my initial thought, but I've had that before with recordings on other birds (and it definitely was the bird that I didn't think the recording sounded like). I'd imagine there can be a sound distortion in terms of what you hear with your own ear versus the sound via a recording.

I can't lay claim to knowing every possible verse associated with a Blackcap or Garden Warbler, but had the music been put up and the question asked: what bird is this? Neither BC nor GW would have come to my mind.

I'd be interested to know whether or not Jay actually saw the bird.

 

[01101001]

I don't have experience with Garden Warbler, but the snippet above sounds distinctly Blackbird-like in timbre. Blackcaps' songs sound thinner to me. Is it some nightingale mimicry in the last 5 seconds? But no idea as to the definite ID.

It's a blackcap, but it doesn't end its song with fluty notes just like a garden warbler. If I didn't know that only blackcaps are in my area I would guess it's a garden warbler. And actually I can hear these blackcaps without a fluty end quite often

Generally, I don't want to believe such information because (1) it suppresses less common bird occurences and (2), in this case, it's not true.

Mapa obecności gatunków - www.ornitho.pl

Mapa obecności gatunków - www.ornitho.pl

Maybe you're just trying to make a Garden Warbler into a Blackcap, in which case your initial intuition would've been correct?

EDIT:

I hear lots of Blackcaps where I am, but very few GW. My first thoughts when listening to the OP was "not a Blackcap" but from the links on 01101001's post (can I call you Hex69 for short?) the adult songs for GW and BC are much more similar than I realized. But the OP song doesn't sound very like either, so perhaps a subsong of some kind?

(I'm not saying anything, but I had a very similar impression a while ago, and, then, it turned out that I'd clicked the wrong play button, though I can't rule out that they are really similar because I have no experience with Garden Warblers.

Of course, feel free.)

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

but the snippet above sounds distinctly Blackbird-like in timbre.

We can safely rule out a Blackbird. The bird in the recording doesn't have anywhere near the beauty of the Blackbird song.

 

[01101001]

I meant the description of Garden Warbler's timbre. I agree the song itself is too scratchy and full of mimicry for a Blackbird.

EDIT: Still, if I were to describe this snippet to someone, I'd say it sounds like an uncrystallised Blackbird song* going full Marsh Warbler halfway through, with Icterine Warbler for a few seconds in between the two (and I wouldn't say that of any crystallised Blackcap song I've heard, at least until now).

*

ML535716111 - Eurasian Blackbird - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML535716111; © Anonymous; Mazowieckie, Poland

macaulaylibrary.org

EDIT 2: Screenshots added for comparison (I didn't fully expect the results).

@pianoman Guess you were right indeed, my clicking abilities notwithstanding.

Late EDIT 3: Maybe there are two different birds in the foreground?