Bring back the Great Auk (1 Viewer)

[duncan fraser]

We are all used to the idea of reintroducing regionally extinct species to the UK - well, maybe not absolutely everyone - but how about reintroducing a globally extinct species.
In this month's edition of National Geographic, a team of scientists claim they have now developed the ability to clone recently (within the last few thousand years) extinct species and are seriously considering bring back the Passenger Pigeon. If the project goes ahead, they will use DNA from museum specimens, splice it with Rock Pigeon DNA and inject it into Rock Pigeon eggs. This will produce Rock Pigeons that are carrying Passenger Pigeon ova/sperm which will eventually produce Passenger Pigeons, can be bred through selection, and then groups of birds reintroduced into the wild. This will hopefully enhance and strengthen the biodiversity of the relevant areas, possibly benefitting other species - standard ecologist arguments on complexity and holism etc. etc. Also, it will right the wrong carried out by previous generations of humans.
Of course, there are objections - possibility of viruses, money is better spent on conserving present species, they are not 'true' Passenger Pigeons etc. etc. However, the technology could also be used to protect currently endangered species and will no doubt become cheaper over time.

The only recently extinct species that bred in the UK is the Great Auk. It used to breed in the Orkneys and St. Kilda. It was wiped out through hunting and the introduction of rats onto their breeding islands. With these problems gone (hopefully), with no other species having taken over their ecological niche, and with their prey species still common, there are no ecological reasons for not doing something similar with Great Auks. Razorbills, their closest relative, could be used in place of Rock Pigeons.
There are over 70 museum specimens of Great Auks, so the DNA must be out there. Rather than waste money on Trident, failing to deport Abu Qatada, Michael Gove's salary etc. we could do something brilliant and bring back the Great Auk. Imagine seeing one swimming around in a remote Scottish bay. Brilliant!! And the real clincher - it would be another UK tick!!

It's got to be worth a try if the technology works.

 

[luke01903]

I saw this but I believe it could cause more damage than good as it has been extinct for so long and the eco-systems may of changed. I must confess though, it would be a great tick (if you could tick it?) and also amazing to see one in the flesh. Only seen the stuffed bird at the NHM London.

 

[Tri-Counties Birder]

Luke's absolutely right. It would only take a small change in the ecosystem they have left to cause a failure, and therefore a waste of time and money. If the species involved became extinct due to habitat loss, then there really is no point is trying.

Perhaps, it might be worth it for species that have become extinct quite recently, as long as the suitable habitat still exists and can be protected.

I don't see the Dodo thriving in today's world.

 

[Richard Klim]

More BirdForum discussion...

• Passenger Pigeon
• "De-extinction"

 

[fugl]

Great Auk certainly makes a lot more sense in survival-of-suitable-habitat terms than Passenger Pigeon!

 

[duncan fraser]

Luke's absolutely right. It would only take a small change in the ecosystem they have left to cause a failure, and therefore a waste of time and money. If the species involved became extinct due to habitat loss, then there really is no point is trying.

Perhaps, it might be worth it for species that have become extinct quite recently, as long as the suitable habitat still exists and can be protected.

I don't see the Dodo thriving in today's world.

It wouldn't take a small change in the ecosystem. Birds that have survived for thousands of years are more robust than that, and could survive certain changes in their ecosystem. It would have to be a very substantial change to prevent reintroduction. In evolutionary terms, 200 years is a very short period of time. WTEs came back after 100 years absence.

 

[birdboybowley]

Agree, can't really see why GA wouldn't be able to survive today. At least there won't (hopefully!) be sailors stopping off at their breeding grounds, killing the adults and eating the eggs or backwards island people killing them for being witches causing to the bad weather......

 

[Mysticete]

Yep...Great Auk hasn't been extinct long enough for there really to be significant change in the ecosystem...all the seabirds and fish it coinhabited with are still around.

Only major problems (besides the whole...can we actually clone one) would be whether they were migratory or not. Does anyone know if they were resident within their range?

 

[Farnboro John]

Yep...Great Auk hasn't been extinct long enough for there really to be significant change in the ecosystem...all the seabirds and fish it coinhabited with are still around.

Only major problems (besides the whole...can we actually clone one) would be whether they were migratory or not. Does anyone know if they were resident within their range?

Probably as migratory as penguins. And I don't see it as a potential problem. Why would it be?

John

 

[Gill Osborne]

I must confess though, it would be a great tick (if you could tick it?)...

Wouldn't it just! Probably have to wait until they were a self-sustaining population...two/three generations along? :t:

 

[A2GG]

Speaking of extinct species, there is a documentary film out now about an artist who made memorial sculptures of the 5 bird species that went extinct in modern times (humans the culprit) and how he was able to get these memorials placed where the last individual of each species died. I just saw it yesterday on tv...it's very moving.

http://www.lostbirdfilm.org/

 

[JWN Andrewes]

I would through into the mix that pigeon husbandry is a hell of a lot better understood than auk husbandry. Might be best to iron out any problems working with something like pigeons, parrots (Carolina Parakeet?), finches (can't think of a good example!) that people have been working closely with for years (in some cases generations) before moving onto less widely kept taxa.

James

 

[Zheljko]

Somebody would have to teach the auk to behave like an auk; I saw some alcids on TV where father leads the offspring to the sea. It would also need to be fed by an adult with a specific size of fish, learning the proper calls, watching the neighbors to imprint on its own species. If a smaller alcid species is used as a foster parent they would either teach it the wrong stuff, underfeed it or just stop feeding it before it is ready to start foraging for itself.

 

[duncan fraser]

Yep...Great Auk hasn't been extinct long enough for there really to be significant change in the ecosystem...all the seabirds and fish it coinhabited with are still around.

Only major problems (besides the whole...can we actually clone one) would be whether they were migratory or not. Does anyone know if they were resident within their range?

From historical records, I get the impression they were partially migratory - as there were a number of records from further south, but not many, so probably mostly stayinging in the North Atlantic. Apparently, they were very strong swimmers.

Why would being migratory make a difference?

 

[duncan fraser]

I would through into the mix that pigeon husbandry is a hell of a lot better understood than auk husbandry. Might be best to iron out any problems working with something like pigeons, parrots (Carolina Parakeet?), finches (can't think of a good example!) that people have been working closely with for years (in some cases generations) before moving onto less widely kept taxa.

James

I suspect that if cloning extinct species is attempted - and knowing scientists I bet they will try - I suspect it will be done with Passenger Pigeons first. If this proves successful, then I assume others will want to repeat this on a variety of other species - so Great Auk would be an obvious choice for Europeans.

 

[duncan fraser]

Somebody would have to teach the auk to behave like an auk; I saw some alcids on TV where father leads the offspring to the sea. It would also need to be fed by an adult with a specific size of fish, learning the proper calls, watching the neighbors to imprint on its own species. If a smaller alcid species is used as a foster parent they would either teach it the wrong stuff, underfeed it or just stop feeding it before it is ready to start foraging for itself.

I get the impression that the first 2 or 3 generations would probably be bred in captivity, so I would imagine that their human breeders would find solutions to these problems

 

[fugl]

I get the impression that the first 2 or 3 generations would probably be bred in captivity, so I would imagine that their human breeders would find solutions to these problems

Indeed, especially considering that a good deal of auk behavior--certainly the vocalizations--is likely to be innate.

 

[Mysticete]

I assumed migration might be a problem if they need to be taught "where to go", as has been a problem with Whooping cranes.

 

[duncan fraser]

I assumed migration might be a problem if they need to be taught "where to go", as has been a problem with Whooping cranes.

From the literature, I get the impression that they mainly swam out into the oceans outside the breeding season - as many auk species seem to do - so it probably wouldn't be too much of a problem, assuming they can find the fish species they preyed on. Being non-flyers, I would assume there would be fewer obstacles than with migrating birds that fly

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

Labrador Duck would be rather nice

Edited just to say that is a joke (hence the smiley). My Knee jerk reaction is that this is a ludicrous idea when we have birds to conserve that are still with us.

Given the pressures that are already on north-west Atlantic seabird populations because of changes in the population of marine vertebrates and the shifts in the balance of the food chain, I can't honestly think that we can really kid ourselves that introducing Great Auk having brought it back from extinction isn't going to have a further impact. It may not, but it's a ridiculous risk to take. There have certainly been increases in the population/range of other seabirds (Fulmar just as one example, and I believe also Gannet), and there have certainly been changes in the food chain since Great Auk became extinct. The habitat may look the same in that cliffs plunge down into saline water, but the ecosystem definitely isn't the same, and that's surely what matters