• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Cacatuidae (2 Viewers)

Is it possible to place lathami in the genus Harrisornis Mathews, 1914 according to Provost et al 2017 ?
The results in Provost et al 2018 (banksii, [lathami, (funereus, [baudinii, latirostris])]) (pdf of the paper [here], but for a readable tree, go [here] and click 'supplemental') (it would be easier for people to follow you if you gave a DOI or full reference, rather than just an author and date ;)) would seem to mandate this if Zanda is recognised with the composition suggested above...
But they are contradicted by those of White et al 2011 ([banksii, lathami], [funereus, (baudinii, latirostris)]) and Astuti 2011 ([banksii, lathami], [baudinii, latirostris]) (published [here]).
 
Last edited:
The question is, is Zanda really distinguishable from Calyptorhynchus ?
I wondered the same, and checked in an Australian field guide; seems yes:

* Ear coverts same colour as rest of head: Calyptorhynchus
* Ear coverts distinctly paler than rest of head: Zanda

That was the only obvious difference I could see, though there may be others :t:
 
The question is, is Zanda really distinguishable from Calyptorhynchus ?

I wondered the same, and checked in an Australian field guide; seems yes:

* Ear coverts same colour as rest of head: Calyptorhynchus
* Ear coverts distinctly paler than rest of head: Zanda

That was the only obvious difference I could see, though there may be others :t:

Christidis & Boles (2008, Systematics and Taxonomy of Australian Birds) say this: "The black-cockatoo genus Calyptorhynchus comprises two subgenera (Peters 1937; Schodde 1997b): Calyptorhynchus (banksii, lathami) and Zanda (funereus, baudinii, latirostris). Courtney (1996) noted differences in juvenile food-begging displays between them. Schodde (1997b) suggested that the two could represent separate generic recognition and, while such a move is not adopted here, the issue merits further investigation."
 
The results in Provost et al 2018 [...] are contradicted by those of White et al 2011 [...] and Astuti 2011 [...]
The complete mitochondrial genome of lathami in GenBank looks like it has some problems.
When I run a BLAST search on the separate nd2 and cox1 sequences of lathami that are also in GenBank, the genome is recovered (as expected) very simalar to them, and lathami seems sister to banksii. When I try the same thing with the separate cytb sequence that is in GenBank, this sequence falls sister to banksii (in the position assumed by the taxon based on nd2 and cox1), but the homologous part of the genome ends up embedded in the funereus-latirostris-baudinii cluster. Thus it seems probable that this "lathami" genome is actually in part something else.
Provost et al got their data from GenBank, and I see no suggestion in their work that they checked the data they were using for this type of problem.
This could be the explanation.
 
I wondered the same, and checked in an Australian field guide; seems yes:

* Ear coverts same colour as rest of head: Calyptorhynchus
* Ear coverts distinctly paler than rest of head: Zanda

That was the only obvious difference I could see, though there may be others :t:

In other words, they are as different as Mionectes and Pipromorpha are, lol (I dunno if my sentence is really English)
 
Calyptorhynchus banksii escondidus

Ewart, Kyle M., Nathan Lo, Rob Ogden, Leo Joseph, Simon Y. W. Ho, Greta J. Frankham, Mark D. B. Eldridge, Richard Schodde, and Rebecca N. Johnson. 2020. Phylogeography of the iconic Australian red-tailed black-cockatoo (Calyptorhynchus banksii) and implications for its conservation. Heredity
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41437-020-0315-y

Abstract:

Advances in sequencing technologies have revolutionized wildlife conservation genetics. Analysis of genomic data sets can provide high-resolution estimates of genetic structure, genetic diversity, gene flow, and evolutionary history. These data can be used to characterize conservation units and to effectively manage the genetic health of species in a broad evolutionary context. Here we utilize thousands of genome-wide single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) and mitochondrial DNA to provide the first genetic assessment of the Australian red-tailed black-cockatoo (Calyptorhynchus banksii), a widespread bird species comprising populations of varying conservation concern. We identified five evolutionarily significant units, which are estimated to have diverged during the Pleistocene. These units are only partially congruent with the existing morphology- based subspecies taxonomy. Genetic clusters inferred from mitochondrial DNA differed from those based on SNPs and were less resolved. Our study has a range of conservation and taxonomic implications for this species. In particular, we provide advice on the potential genetic rescue of the Endangered and restricted-range subspecies C. b. graptogyne, and propose that the western C. b. samueli population is diagnosable as a separate subspecies. The results of our study highlight the utility of considering the phylogeographic relationships inferred from genome-wide SNPs when characterizing conservation units and management priorities, which is particularly relevant as genomic data sets become increasingly accessible.

Calyptorhynchus banksii escondidus Ewart, Joseph, and Schodde, subsp. nov.
 
Denis A. Saunders and Geoffrey Pickup (2023) A review of the taxonomy and distribution of Australia's endemic Calyptorhynchinae black cockatoos. Australian Zoologist, to be published 10 August 2023.
https://doi.org/10.7882/AZ.2023.022 [not yet active]

Abstract
Our review of the taxonomy of Australia's endemic Calyptorhynchinae black cockatoos based on morphology, ecology, biology, vocalisations, distributions, and genetic studies concluded that they constitute two genera; those with red subterminal tail bands in the genus Calyptorhynchus Desmarest, 1826 and those with white or yellow subterminal tail bands in the genus Zanda Mathews, 1913. We also concluded that the genus Calyptorhynchus is made up of six monotypic species: Northern Red-tailed Cockatoo C. banksii Latham, 1790; South-eastern Red-tailed Cockatoo C. graptogyne Schodde, Saunders and Homberger, 1988; Forest Red-tailed Cockatoo C. naso Gould, 1837; Inland Red-tailed Cockatoo C. samueli Mathews, 1917; Western Red-tailed Cockatoo C. escondidus Ewart, Joseph and Schodde, 2020; and Glossy Cockatoo C. lathami Temminck, 1807. Formerly, the five red-tailed taxa were regarded as subspecies and the Glossy Cockatoo consisted of three subspecies. In addition, we concluded that the genus Zanda is made up of five monotypic species: two with white subterminal tail bands, Baudin’s Cockatoo Z. baudinii Lear, 1832 and Carnaby’s Cockatoo Z. latirostris Carnaby, 1948; and three with yellow subterminal tail bands, Eastern Yellow-tailed Cockatoo Z. funerea Shaw, 1794, Western Yellow-tailed Cockatoo Z. whiteae Mathews, 1912, and Tasmanian Yellow-tailed Cockatoo Z. xanthanota Gould, 1838. Formerly, the three yellow-tailed taxa were regarded as subspecies. As all cockatoos with coloured subterminal tail bands are black, we recommend deleting the word black from their common names.
 
Denis A. Saunders and Geoffrey Pickup (2023) A review of the taxonomy and distribution of Australia's endemic Calyptorhynchinae black cockatoos. Australian Zoologist, to be published 10 August 2023.
https://doi.org/10.7882/AZ.2023.022 [not yet active]

Abstract
Our review of the taxonomy of Australia's endemic Calyptorhynchinae black cockatoos based on morphology, ecology, biology, vocalisations, distributions, and genetic studies concluded that they constitute two genera; those with red subterminal tail bands in the genus Calyptorhynchus Desmarest, 1826 and those with white or yellow subterminal tail bands in the genus Zanda Mathews, 1913. We also concluded that the genus Calyptorhynchus is made up of six monotypic species: Northern Red-tailed Cockatoo C. banksii Latham, 1790; South-eastern Red-tailed Cockatoo C. graptogyne Schodde, Saunders and Homberger, 1988; Forest Red-tailed Cockatoo C. naso Gould, 1837; Inland Red-tailed Cockatoo C. samueli Mathews, 1917; Western Red-tailed Cockatoo C. escondidus Ewart, Joseph and Schodde, 2020; and Glossy Cockatoo C. lathami Temminck, 1807. Formerly, the five red-tailed taxa were regarded as subspecies and the Glossy Cockatoo consisted of three subspecies. In addition, we concluded that the genus Zanda is made up of five monotypic species: two with white subterminal tail bands, Baudin’s Cockatoo Z. baudinii Lear, 1832 and Carnaby’s Cockatoo Z. latirostris Carnaby, 1948; and three with yellow subterminal tail bands, Eastern Yellow-tailed Cockatoo Z. funerea Shaw, 1794, Western Yellow-tailed Cockatoo Z. whiteae Mathews, 1912, and Tasmanian Yellow-tailed Cockatoo Z. xanthanota Gould, 1838. Formerly, the three yellow-tailed taxa were regarded as subspecies. As all cockatoos with coloured subterminal tail bands are black, we recommend deleting the word black from their common names.
Should this be accepted, that's 6 to 8 new species for me; much depends on the mapped distributions...!
MJB
 
I have to think of a French name for C. graptogyne and escondidus. Joy.

Jim, simply following Jobling's Key:
graptogyne
Gr. γραπτος graptos painted < γραφω graphō to write; γυνη gunē, γυναικος gunaikos female, wife; ...

escondidus
Spanish escondido hidden < esconder to hide (cf. escondidos hide-and-seek).
... gives us (in my poor, very poor) French: Cacatoès (banksien) artisane resp. Cacatoès cache-cache

For what it's worth ... 🙄
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top