This is a Canastero I saw in June at Los Cardones NP at 3050 meters above sea level. To me it looks like Steinbach's Canastero Pseudasthenes steinbachi. However it seems that this species is easy to confuse with Rusty-vented Canastero Asthenes dorbignyi. What seems to me to be the most reliable and objective field mark to distinguish them is the tail colour: dorbignyi being mostly black whereas steinbachi is mostly rufous, as in the photos here. A local birder I spoke with said this was probably too high for steinbachi, and the Ridgely and Tudor book seems to agree. Whatever this bird is, I saw quite a few more of almost certainly the same species at Los Cardones. They made a distinctive nasal burry call which is neither on xeno-canto or on Birds of the Southern Cone, rather reminiscent of a brief call of a Common Whitethroat (like XC181534, but shorter and less emphasized). I realize that not many people are going to be familiar with these species, but any ideas on the matter are welcome.
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Canastero in NW Argentina (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tui
- Start date
No personal experience, but hopefully a couple of helpful links
http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Steinbach's_Canastero
http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Rusty-vented_Canastero
Niels
http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Steinbach's_Canastero
http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Rusty-vented_Canastero
Niels
Thanks for the replies.
Unfortunately the links don't really have much info on how to tell the two species apart.
Regarding the chin patch, a google images search for the 2 canasteros clearly showed that both species can frequently show a chin patch, so this feature is clearly not at all reliable (if the pictures are indeed correctly identified). Antbird53, how did you identify the canasteros as Steinbach's? I myself saw a few in the striking limestone formation between Cafayate and Cachi, and they produced the same call as the ones I saw at Los Cardones. I did also see various obviously black-tailed canasteros in NW Argentina, so it's not as if I'm mistaking all the Rusty-vented for Steinbach's.
Well I guess I will just have to rely on the internet photos for confirmation of my ID. It seems I have made 2 modestly significant discoveries (which many locals surely knew already): that Steinbach's can indeed present a chin patch; and that it can occur, and even be quite common, at least up to 3050 meters (as opposed to a maximum of 2500 according to Ridgely and Tudor).
Unfortunately the links don't really have much info on how to tell the two species apart.
Regarding the chin patch, a google images search for the 2 canasteros clearly showed that both species can frequently show a chin patch, so this feature is clearly not at all reliable (if the pictures are indeed correctly identified). Antbird53, how did you identify the canasteros as Steinbach's? I myself saw a few in the striking limestone formation between Cafayate and Cachi, and they produced the same call as the ones I saw at Los Cardones. I did also see various obviously black-tailed canasteros in NW Argentina, so it's not as if I'm mistaking all the Rusty-vented for Steinbach's.
Well I guess I will just have to rely on the internet photos for confirmation of my ID. It seems I have made 2 modestly significant discoveries (which many locals surely knew already): that Steinbach's can indeed present a chin patch; and that it can occur, and even be quite common, at least up to 3050 meters (as opposed to a maximum of 2500 according to Ridgely and Tudor).
I would not trust a random google search for accuracy. In the links I presented, there were links at the bottom of each page for the gallery here, with hopefully more images. Other than that, I tend to trust images in the Lynx site called The internet bird collection: http://ibc.lynxeds.com/
Niels
PS: did you check HBW alive?
You ask how I identified the Canasteros as Steinbach's. I suppose the simple answer is that they were located and identified by Mark Pearman, who was leading a group I was in. That apart, my notes from the time stated "Long chestnut tail with dark centre; greyish-brown head and back; pale grey-buff underparts; chestnut vent. No chin patch."
Having done a little more research I would say things are confusing. HBW Alive has photos of dorbignyi without a chin patch for example, though R&T do note that chin patches can be hard to see. As far as altitude is concerned, HBW and Birds of the High Andes both give altitude up to 3000m for steinbachi.
From your comments, I guess you have made up your mind, but if you wanted to take it further I would suggest getting in touch with Mark Pearman, who is the author of a guide to the birds of Argentina to be published later this year. He is extremely knowledgeable about the birds of Argentina and I am sure would either know of, or have an opinion on your birds.
I don't have contact details I'm afraid, but you could try via Birdquest www.birdquest-tours.com/, who would forward an email I am sure, or Bloomsbury Publishing, or SACC to which he is an advisor.
For me is Steinbach's Canastero.
Based on "Birds of South America" by Ridgely&Tudor, Rufous-vented C has a rufous chin patch, wings mainly rufous and rump rich rufous contrasting with mostly black tail. On the other side, Steinbach's C lacks a chin patch (lower throat only flecked black) and shows more rufous on lateral tail (outer two pairs of feathers all rufous, not just outermost web).
Based on "Birds of South America" by Ridgely&Tudor, Rufous-vented C has a rufous chin patch, wings mainly rufous and rump rich rufous contrasting with mostly black tail. On the other side, Steinbach's C lacks a chin patch (lower throat only flecked black) and shows more rufous on lateral tail (outer two pairs of feathers all rufous, not just outermost web).
Thanks again for the new replies.
I had heard a lot about HBW but did not know of HBW alive, thank you Niels. However it seems you need a subscription to access the complete species accounts; I suppose I should consider subscribing.
I do not blindly trust google images, but I do find they can be a useful complement to more official sources; if the results are sufficiently numerous and consistent I believe one can usually figure out which photos are misidentified. I am also wary of relying on the IBC, since I have definitely come across at least one wrongly identified picture there, though the vast majority clearly is correct. Additionally both IBC and HBW still state that steinbachi likely forms a species complex with dorbignyi, even though the former has been moved to a whole different genus several years ago, so they don't seem to be extremely up to date.
In the single video in the IBC of steinbachi, the bird has a marked chin patch, but the tail shows the right amount of rufous for this species - compare this with the almost entirely black tail in the video of dorbignyi from Salta province.
I'm glad to see that other sources state 3000 meters as the upper altitude, it makes me more confident of my ID.
Though I am a bit afraid of bothering Mark Pearson, especially since I have, indeed, essentially made up my mind, it would be interesting to hear his take on the issue, so I might indeed try to get in touch.
I had heard a lot about HBW but did not know of HBW alive, thank you Niels. However it seems you need a subscription to access the complete species accounts; I suppose I should consider subscribing.
I do not blindly trust google images, but I do find they can be a useful complement to more official sources; if the results are sufficiently numerous and consistent I believe one can usually figure out which photos are misidentified. I am also wary of relying on the IBC, since I have definitely come across at least one wrongly identified picture there, though the vast majority clearly is correct. Additionally both IBC and HBW still state that steinbachi likely forms a species complex with dorbignyi, even though the former has been moved to a whole different genus several years ago, so they don't seem to be extremely up to date.
In the single video in the IBC of steinbachi, the bird has a marked chin patch, but the tail shows the right amount of rufous for this species - compare this with the almost entirely black tail in the video of dorbignyi from Salta province.
I'm glad to see that other sources state 3000 meters as the upper altitude, it makes me more confident of my ID.
Though I am a bit afraid of bothering Mark Pearson, especially since I have, indeed, essentially made up my mind, it would be interesting to hear his take on the issue, so I might indeed try to get in touch.
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