careers or business with birds? (1 Viewer)

[Steve Babbs]

You won't get rich being a teacher either. But you will be able to afford a house - well with house prices these days, only just - and a few luxuries. If you decide to have a family, you are likely to struggle to make ends meat when working in many conservation jobs. I'm not at all materialistic but money has its uses. If you're not interested in house, car, foreign trips etc go for it.

Rather confused though, of course people are letting their own 'experiences determine their responses' - surely that's the point of the thread!

I know several people who have worked in birds/conservation and chucked it in, pretty sure none of them regret it. But of course there are lots of people who are glad they went into it. It's just very obvious that people have a very 'rose-tinted' view of what it's like, as I did. Of course it depends what you want out of life.

Teaching is very stressful but I know I am doing something very worthwhile (I occasionally had my doubts about that in conservation - not that I ever thought conservation wasn't important but I did sometimes have doubts about the project I was working on), I get a decent wages and lots of holidays for foreign birding. I could never go back to conservation but I have to admit I'm sometimes tempted by leading bird tours, but I know from having known several people who do this that it can be very stressful as well.

So for anyone who does go for it good luck. I hope it works out. My main area was ornithological research, don't even think of going into this if you don't have that PhD! You'll have very little chance of getting past the survey stage.

Time for me to bow out of this one.

 

[Woodchatshrike]

Do not let the negativity on here put you off. Okay, you have to accept that the better paid conservation jobs will not involve being outside all day and watching/monitoring birds. Wardening jobs and research/survey jobs are quite poorly paid. The better paid jobs involve a fair bit of time behind a computer rather than out in the field. You will never become rich working for a conservation NGO, so you have to decide whether this matters.

As someone else said, you need to make your own luck and put yourself out there. Get involved with your local societies, start volunteering for the local wildlife trust or RSPB. I started volunteering when I was 14 and this definitely helped me get my first break. A degree is essential, so start thinking about this now.

I have worked in conservation for the last ten years and can honestly say that I have never regretted my career choices.

A dregree ain't essential at all. Experiance is far more....

 

[Jos Stratford]

I'm only 13 but ...

Aim high. Marry a wealthy partner, then bird to your heart's desire.

 

[DunnoKev]

A dregree ain't essential at all. Experiance is far more....

Dangerous advice.

Chatted this through recently with an old schoolfriend high in a County Wildlife Trust. With the volume of applicants they have for openings now, they'll use a degree as a vetting tool. If you've got a dozen applicants with a degree and experience, they'll look at those people rather than the next dozen or so plebs with just the experience.

The vast majority of people who carry out interviews have never had any training in interviewing and vetting. They take the easy options. A degree says a lot about a person.

If you're young and planning your future, you really want to give yourself the best opportunity, get the degree (says the guy without the degree who got lucky).

If you're mature and looking to change careers, do your networking before applying, because if you're unknown to the body and the cv isn't scoring you big points, you won't get a look in.

 

[dantheman]

A dregree ain't essential at all. Experiance is far more....

(Good point well made. :t: )


You've got to do something in life that you enjoy, or at least don't hate too much. Or at least do something.

There's plenty of scope for working in the 'countryside', if it's working outdoors you want. You can tailor it to the conservation side of things if you so desire. (eg gardening/farming/visitor attractions/leisure industry). Just there might not actually be much money in it, especially if its pure conservation work.

To actually become a nature reserve warden or similar will require immense amounts of drive, personality and luck. Agree that a large portion of conservation work is more about IT, education and people skills.

So yep, have to agree with the comments about volunteering, making contacts and personal development and gaining experience - presuambly there's a good chance you'll discover the niche 'destined' for you as you go along ... or not. Good luck.

 

[dubs1967]

True. He should aim higher. How about steeplejack?

Become a pilot,and fly like a bird.Now that is aiming high!!:-O

 

[Steve Dudley]

A dregree ain't essential at all. Experiance is far more....

Dangerous advice.

Chatted this through recently with an old schoolfriend high in a County Wildlife Trust. With the volume of applicants they have for openings now, they'll use a degree as a vetting tool.

I agree with Kev. Odd advice in todays market. A degree, if not openly requested in a job advert (and they usually are now), is used as a sifting tool for applications. And just look at the job adverts and see how low down the employment scale degrees are being requested for.

 

[jurek]

Keep it a hobby, otherwise you will have neither money nor a proper birding!

Believe me, guiding a bird tour is hard work, and you cannot even enjoy the birds because one guest just cannot see the bird, another is grumbling over stomach upset, hotel just lost your reservation etc.

 

[jurek]

you can easily lose that love for birds when you work with them every day

Very true!

I heard it called birdophobia. After several weeks of ringing waders, you almost vomit at the sight of a Dunlin. Serious!

Few ornithologists watch birds anymore outside the scope of their projects. It is luck if they want to pick their bins when a major rarity turns incredibly close.

 

[Aquila Tours]

From the age of 14 I followed Kev's advice, well most of it (I still have the occasional cig Kev!!) and I couldn't agree more with what he is saying on here now. The key to all of this is that if you want to work in this field enough and your willing to dedicate everything about your life to it, then you will get what you want.

Once you have the qualifications you can find the job that suits your birding demands the best. I finished uni 18 months ago, I worked full time for the RSPB whilst doing my Masters degree which I enjoyed but was more P.R than birding. I then tried wind farm survey work which again was ok but not really what I had excpected. I wanted to be in the field all day finding birds everyday, so 9 months ago I decided to set up a tour company in an area I had birded for 10 years and we have already run 2 full tours and guided 21 Day Trips. Its hard work and I have to scrape by (for now) but I love it and its a prime example that if you want anything enough you can do it!

 

[Steve Babbs]

A dregree ain't essential at all. Experiance is far more....

Frankly this advice is just irresponsible, the ability to spell is useful as well , it is impossible to exaggerate how competitive it is; a 'good' degree is the most basic starting point. Everyone else will have one, many with have a Masters and a good number a PhD.

I found I enjoyed my British birding much more when I gave up working with birds. If you really want to do it go for it, but I was there and was certain I would never do anything else. In fact, initially I felt I was betraying my dream and the thought of giving up almost seemed a kind of blasphemy, but I'm so glad I did.

 

[jurek]

I wanted to be in the field all day finding birds everyday

Yes, birding tours are the only thing which lets you visit new places!

Many people don't realize that an ornithologist works on ONE or a few species in ONE place. Often for lifetime. Typically, the place is rather bleak, because best study sites have easy access - close to home, good infrastructure - suburban park preferred to remote wilderness. He may switch the project every few years (and rarely so, because grants are given by experience - if you know a topic, it is increasingly likely to get a grant on it and be turned from something else), but it is definitely not like a zoo or TV show in BBC which will hop between interesting species from all over the world.

Consider Jane Goodall. She spent her life working with chimpanzees. But she never went elsewhere and saw a gorilla or an orangutan, certainly not during her work.

 

[scuba0095]

i am just a bit depressed because i do not like the business i do its just not me i dont enjoy it is just for the money to survive i love birds and being around them all day i really enjoy watching interacting between diff species larus gulls are one of my fave i am not that interested in the science aspect thought

 

[Gretchen]

I think for someone who's (probably) finished most of their education and already has work experience, the question is the same as that of any career-seeker. Like it says in "What color is your parachute" you have to survey your own interests, abilities, and experiences. You may not want to work in conservation, but if you are interested in small business, you may build a business related to birding. No one here knows what skill set you have, so only you can do that survey of your abilities.

Every job has its drawbacks obviously, so no one should be too idealistic. My relative's great job at the zoo was "just" doing admin work there, but she loved going for a walk on the grounds at lunch, working with keepers sometimes and working for an organization whose goals made sense to her. She got the job through making her previous (business) experiences relevant to a completely different field (non-profit).

You do have to think outside the box - there are many special niches and jobs that might include some more pleasant aspects. Also, if you want to make a big change, expect that it could take several years to get experience/training (in volunteer work as others have said) and find the right sort of thing - it's a long term project. Finding your niche will take work and persistence, but if you really want a change...

 

[scuba0095]

thank you from the sounds of it i do not think ornathology is for me i have a degree in business actually

i would just like to do something for once that had to do with my love for birds or other animals i was thinking of wildlife rehab does anyone here work in that?


there is also avaculture breeding of rare species but that is more of a hobby not a career

i am suprised though no one here talked about the business aspect of birds?

 

[Steve Dudley]

i am suprised though no one here talked about the business aspect of birds?

I think we all presumed you were looking for a field-based role 'watching' birds. If you cant get a field-based job, then there are probably more jobs which are bird-, and wildlife-, related available to you - just you dont get to watch birds all day, usually end up looking at a computer screen most of the time.

These jobs range from positions with conservation organisations (many have many more office-based staff than field staff), business management and marketing to birders/wildlife watchers in the commercial sector (optic companies, bird food companies, outdoor clothing industry, etc), publishing (book, magazine and journal - but you would almost certainly need some qualifications and/or experience of some aspects of the publishing process), tour leading (but limited opportunities unless you know someone very well who will give you a go or you have the nerve to set up on your own) (I do/have done all of the above during my career).

If you have a business degree then this could give you a lever into one of the above posts. I'm sure across the areas of the US you wouldn't mind living there will be at least some opportunities.

My main roles at the BOU include publishing (books and journal) and a conference facilitator. I might not be working with birds, but I am working within a community of birders and ornithologists which numbs the loss. Freelance work in publishing, writing, marketing and tour leading also add to the mix, and working from home with good window views for birds definitely helps!

For me, once I had got used to the fact I wasn't going to have a career in the field, it was about finding the birding/work/life balance that we all face in whatever career we do. And lets face it, I don't know many birders who wouldn't want to spend more time than they do in the field.

 

[Kratter]

Ornithology careers

I am a bit surprised at the majority of posters who have such a negative vision of what a career as an ornithologist can be like. Although the original poster may not follow the academic path, others young birders reading this thread would surely get discouraged at the possibilities of pursuing a career in ornithology. I want to emphatically state that if you are sincerely interested in birds and can put your heart into your pursuits, then you will find a rewarding career in ornithology.

Like many of my colleagues (both academic and non-academic), I started birding at 12 years old, and pretty much (slowly) followed the academic path, BA, MA, PhD, with time between and within degrees watching birds. I have worked 15+ years in a natural history museum in the United States as collection manager of birds at the Florida Museum of Natural History. My work has allowed me to study birds all over the globe (Nepal, New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, Bolivia, Peru, Guyana, Panama, Costa Rica) -- I would not trade it for any other. It is not that my job is unique either. Several natural history museums in the US are churning out graduate students bound for similar careers. Many of my colleagues have academic, governmental, or NGO positions outside of museums as well.

Andy

 

[NicoleVG]

All of this is so doomy and gloomy!
I am a recent graduate and hope to be a professional bird biologist. I don't know what it is like across the pond, but I am having a great time in the US and Canada!
I must say that good grades and my enthusiasm are getting me places, as I do lack a lot of experience. The biggest hurdle I have had to overcome was the fact that I haven't banded many birds, haven't spent a millions hours in the field, haven't etc. etc. But once you have volunteered or worked ONE job, doors open. Of course, I don't get every job I apply to, but I do get jobs. I am 22, have paid off my very expensive university degree, have a car, have money to feed myself, and have money to travel! Okay, so I can't do this FOREVER, you are right, but as a young person I want to be doing this NOW!
I want to travel around gaining life experiences and will think about a "full time" job later on. A Msc and a PhD will definitely be in my future, but for now it is living outdoors.

Hope this helps! Trust me, I am having a blast!

Okay, but for some actual advice- You are VERY lucky you have discovered your bird passion early on! Remember to put school first, as grades do get you far, but also try to get into the field. Even if you can't volunteer for an established bird group, do something on your own time! Maybe monitor bird biodiversity in your local area, and how it changes over the months, years, etc. Post this online! See what type of feed back you can get! Then, when submitting a resume, you can always have a link in your CV to this.
Train yourself so that employers don't have to- google Dendroica software, it is a excellent tool developed by the Canadian government that has quizzes to help you learn bird songs and bird plumages. You can learn about all of North America's species, and not just Canadian one
Also, there are Young Ornithologist Workshops here in Canada (Long Point Bird Observatory). They offer scholarships to do this, so try finding something similar where you are! Or consider applying to this.
Most of all, have fun. Make birding friends your age and older- you can not believe how many things I have done because my friends are involved with the project and has invited me along. You really end up having another family of all birders, and its amazing! These are seriously my best friends and we have had so much fun together throughout our many travels.

Hope all this helps and feel free to email me if you want more info!

 

[joshjenkinsshaw]

As has been said previously on this thread, experience and the relevant qualifications are key to getting a job with birds, or within the wildlife conservtion sector.

I've got a fair amount of experience under mybelt, volunteering for the RSPB, Kent Wildlife Trust and I spend last summer ringing quite a lot down at Sandwich Bay. I am (hopefully) off to Ecuador in September 2011 for 3 or 4 months volunteer guiding at Tandayapa Bird Lodge. Who you know is also really helpful in getting advice and even work in the conservation area. I've met some great and really helpful people just through being out and about birding.

Many people have said to me, and I've more often that not thought to myself that keeping birds/wildlife as a hobby would be best, but theres nothing else outthere I'd want to do, nor have the qualifications for.

In an ideal world, I'd love to get into bird tour leading, however I realised this is a very hard area of work to get into and you need a lot of experience in the relevant avifaunas and good people/logistical issue skills. Hopefully I can gain both of these at Tandayapa.

I'm planning to go to Uni in October 2012 to study Wildlife Conservation or Ecology, once I've done a bit more travelling. I can't imagine myself in any other job, and working to save birds, or to promote their conservation is all I want.

Good luck in your endeavours, the more young people wanting to work with birds, the better!

Josh

 

[Jaysan]

The advice thus far is all about proper ornithology related jobs. Can somebody make a living of the photographs they take? How does this work?