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Contrast in binoculars (1 Viewer)

agus_m

Well-known member
Argentina
I own a couple of binoculars (no alphas unfortunately) and I was wondering about the source of loss of contrast in binos. Can a "subalpha" have the same amount of contrast as an alpha?
What would make current alphas inherently superior in terms of contrast? Since contrast is not something that's objectively measured in reviews, I think there is a lot of subjectivity and biases about this concept.
There are many threads already about contrast, but it is often a term that includes two distinct phenomena in my opinion. On the one hand we have the light that creeps in from outside the FOV because of lack of proper baffling, that naturally affects the image of dark objects. And on the other hand, we can have very bright light present in the FOV that gets reflected many times on the different lenses before it enters our eyes, it can look like "ghost" images of the bright source, or just spread out in the whole FOV, affecting the image of dark subjects. I am interested in the latter, I believe it can manifest easily on cloudy days, since the white sky is much brighter (and occupies a significant fraction of the FOV) than tree silouettes, or dark objects or birds.

Common sense tells me that if we want to reduce this effect, we need better coatings and less optical elements. But this also means higher transmission, so do higher transmission binos have better contrast (of the latter type)? I can think of the Habicht that have the best Swaro coatings, and one configuration (7x42?) has very few optical elements, it makes sense that it has good contrast. But Ultravids are said to have good contrast too, and they don't have that high transmission (~88%). I guess "subalphas" like Zeiss's CHD and Nikon's MHG don't have more optical elements than NL Pures, Ultravids and SFs, and they have very close transmission, so I'd say they should have about the same contrast. Does this make sense? Am I missing something?
 
Hi,

I think that the effect of light reflected multiple times between optical surfaces can be safely ignored.

First of all, the amount is minuscule - the amount reflected with halfway modern multicoatings is 0,1% per surface. Second, since most optical surfaces are curved, only a very small amount of the reflected light will reach the eye, provided there is proper baffling and blackening.

And no, despite the very high transmission values, the Habicht series are not known for exceptional contrast. Although the 7x42 is the least bad of the three in this regard.

Joachim
 
I was wondering about the source of loss of contrast in binos.
I've long been curious about this too, and just assumed that the higher contrast of my 8x32 HD+ over the 8x32 BN was solely due to better coatings, but would be happy to find out more about these slight differences that are so hard to detect in some instances, only to be impossible to miss in others.
 
Hi,

I think that the effect of light reflected multiple times between optical surfaces can be safely ignored.

First of all, the amount is minuscule - the amount reflected with halfway modern multicoatings is 0,1% per surface. Second, since most optical surfaces are curved, only a very small amount of the reflected light will reach the eye, provided there is proper baffling and blackening.

And no, despite the very high transmission values, the Habicht series are not known for exceptional contrast. Although the 7x42 is the least bad of the three in this regard.

Joachim
You can easily see ghost images of a bright source with some binoculars, for example at night looking at the moon, or a lamp.

I know that the reflections are very dim, but you can have sources that are very bright and the reflections become noticeable if they end up where it is supposed to be dark. Furthermore, if you have many bright sources (or a high percentage of the FOV) vs a small silhouette, the ghost images of all the individual bright sources could stack together where the silhouette is, and ruin the contrast.

I heard that other than the glare problem (because of lack of proper baffling), the Habichts are supposed to give a very pristine image, like there is no glass between your eyes and the subject. I interpret from this that the contrast must be very good, but I could be wrong, I haven't seen through a habicht yet.
 
I heard that other than the glare problem (because of lack of proper baffling), the Habichts are supposed to give a very pristine image, like there is no glass between your eyes and the subject. I interpret from this that the contrast must be very good, but I could be wrong, I haven't seen through a habicht yet.
This is correct.

I see the "no glass" illusion very frequently in my Habicht 8X30 W. It is very striking, and immediately obvious. Very much like looking through an open window.

I usually only see it within 200 yds/meters or so. After that, atmospheric junk destroys it, at least where I am.
 
Hi,

I think that the effect of light reflected multiple times between optical surfaces can be safely ignored.

First of all, the amount is minuscule - the amount reflected with halfway modern multicoatings is 0,1% per surface. Second, since most optical surfaces are curved, only a very small amount of the reflected light will reach the eye, provided there is proper baffling and blackening. [my emphasis]
That's the point - and that's something quite a few manufacturers sadly neglect.
And no, despite the very high transmission values, the Habicht series are not known for exceptional contrast. Although the 7x42 is the least bad of the three in this regard.
Well, well ... I'd argue the Habicht 7x42 (that's the Habicht I know best) has got very high contrast for a binocular with totally neutral colour rendition. Some binoculars sort of "create" the impression that they have high contrast by shifting the colour balance to emphasize some colours. Leica, for instance, but also Nikon, at least in their older binoculars (SE, HG-L).

Hermann
 
Interesting thread and I think the OP has a numberof valid points.
Lunar and planetary observers among amateur astronomers are interested in revealing subtle contrast differences. They tend to favour doublet objectives over triplets and simple eyepieces such as plössls and orthoscopics with not only a minimum of air/glass surfaces but also short glass paths.
Perhaps these conditions are less common for binocular users but the Habichts are among those that fulfil the above criteria.
All optical materials, with the exception of crystals such as fluorite, will scatter light, so the longer the glass path and the lower the tolerances for refractive index homogeneity, the higher the scatter will be.
As regards Leica, they have a reputation for excellent baffling but I have long suspected that the HighLux prism coatings are a compromise between contrast and transmission. Dielectric mirrors with >30 layers could cause scatter, so perhaps HighLux is a combination of a few dielectric coatings and a metallic (silver?) coating. Binoculars with dielectric mirrors usually have a sharp cutoff in transmission at the red end of the spectrum. Leicas don't.

John
 
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Totally neutral color rendition does not apply to the real world that has an emphasis in the green part of the spectrum and filtering it increases contrast for our eyes. One sees this with yellow eyeglasses the pass less of the blue sky and green foliage light to our eyes. A bird sitting on a branch is also bathed with green light reflected from the leaves.

Sky with Red filter.JPG
 
For most people it's mainly light pollution. Even half-decent telescopes and eyepieces come reasonably close to perfection. Fiddling with them can soak up lots of money, but won't help your views much.

Remember, magnification is your best weapon against light pollution, aside from traveling to a darker site.
 
You can easily see ghost images of a bright source with some binoculars, for example at night looking at the moon, or a lamp.

I know that the reflections are very dim, but you can have sources that are very bright and the reflections become noticeable if they end up where it is supposed to be dark. Furthermore, if you have many bright sources (or a high percentage of the FOV) vs a small silhouette, the ghost images of all the individual bright sources could stack together where the silhouette is, and ruin the contrast.

I heard that other than the glare problem (because of lack of proper baffling), the Habichts are supposed to give a very pristine image, like there is no glass between your eyes and the subject. I interpret from this that the contrast must be very good, but I could be wrong, I haven't seen through a habicht yet.
Contrast is exceptional in all of the current Habicht’s. It literally is one of their best characteristics.
 
For most people it's mainly light pollution. Even half-decent telescopes and eyepieces come reasonably close to perfection. Fiddling with them can soak up lots of money, but won't help your views much.

Remember, magnification is your best weapon against light pollution, aside from traveling to a darker site.
But this is Birdforum, not an astronomy forum. Light pollution is hardly a problem in birdwatching me thinks.

Hermann
 
White is white and black is black. And all the subtle shades of colour in between are clearly distinguishable.

Hermann
 
it is often a term that includes two distinct phenomena in my opinion
The two you mentioned are commonly called glare and veiling glare, and manifest in somewhat different conditions, but are related and typically due to the same causes including inadequate baffling or recessing of objectives. Perhaps even poor coatings but only in the cheapest bins today.

What people most often mean by "contrast" is something else, how colors and shades of objects look when not affected by glare, largely due to the particular coatings chosen by the manufacturer, including those on the prisms where required.
 

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