Diver sp, Durham, UK 12/11/21 (1 Viewer)

[Morgan Caygill]

Thoughts on this diver sp, split between Red and Black-throated.

 

[KC Foggin]

I'm gonna go with Black-throated cause of previous images I've seen.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Welcome to BirdForum Morgan. Your bird looks like a juvenile Red-throated Diver.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello again,
I agree with Andrew, that this has to be a "pitfall-picture" of Red-throated Diver.
I hope the term "pitfall-picture" doesnt come out as an offense, so I will explain it:

• its hard to judge imo, if the straight forehead, merging into the bill, resulting in a smooth triangular, yet still rounded head, is not the result of camera angle. If its real, its a good shape for a Red-throated Diver, if not than its a pitfall picture of a BTD
• I hope to see the "cobra-shaped" neck shape of a rear-viewed Black-throated Diver. But I see a uniform, still broad neck, good for both of them (is it slightly better for a RTD, I am not sure, I hope for others to jump in)
• yes, the pale throat patch seems good for a RTD, but camera angle makes this hard to judge. Might well be easier with a side or a slightly front view
• I have lost faith in colouration/pattern of the flanks as a feature in basic-plumaged birds. Yes, if the bird has dark(ish) flanks with a contrasting white patch on the rear tigh area (yes, it must be strightly in the right area) than I go for a BTD, but only then. So I skip this feature here.
• Look, how long the head and the bill is. Even allowing for a foreshortening effect, this gives this bird a RTD jizz to me. But yes, it can be a pitfall picture of a BTD.

I must admit, this post came out more confident, than it is intendet to be. But yes, I am in the 1 cy Red-throated Diver-camp here, too.

 

[Morgan Caygill]

Hello again,
I agree with Andrew, that this has to be a "pitfall-picture" of Red-throated Diver.
I hope the term "pitfall-picture" doesnt come out as an offense, so I will explain it:

• its hard to judge imo, if the straight forehead, merging into the bill, resulting in a smooth triangular, yet still rounded head, is not the result of camera angle. If its real, its a good shape for a Red-throated Diver, if not than its a pitfall picture of a BTD
• I hope to see the "cobra-shaped" neck shape of a rear-viewed Black-throated Diver. But I see a uniform, still broad neck, good for both of them (is it slightly better for a RTD, I am not sure, I hope for others to jump in)
• yes, the pale throat patch seems good for a RTD, but camera angle makes this hard to judge. Might well be easier with a side or a slightly front view
• I have lost faith in colouration/pattern of the flanks as a feature in basic-plumaged birds. Yes, if the bird has dark(ish) flanks with a contrasting white patch on the rear tigh area (yes, it must be strightly in the right area) than I go for a BTD, but only then. So I skip this feature here.
• Look, how long the head and the bill is. Even allowing for a foreshortening effect, this gives this bird a RTD jizz to me. But yes, it can be a pitfall picture of a BTD.

I must admit, this post came out more confident, than it is intendet to be. But yes, I am in the 1 cy Red-throated Diver-camp here, too.

Thanks for the thorough explanation, appreciate it, unfortunately these were the best I could manage, sea was extremely rough and windy.

 

[Rotherbirder]

The angled/peaked nape is characteristic of Red-throated.

RB