does any BOP take adult mink? that you know of? (2 Viewers)

[Phil Andrews]

A friend recently saw an osprey carrying what he thought was a small black cat - I thought it more likely that it was a mink caught as it crossed a body of water.

Short-toed Eagle?

 

[Jane Turner]

Ospreys are purely fish eaters, so that sounds extremely unlikely.

No they are not - many mammals recorded in their diet..

Although chiefly fish, many records of other prey, as summarized by Glutz von Blotzheim et al. (Glutz 1971) and Wiley and Lohrer (Wiley and Lohrer 1973); include small mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, crustaceans, and other invertebrates. Wiley and Lohrer (Wiley and Lohrer 1973)

 

[Jane Turner]

Full reference Wiley, J.W., and F.E. Lohrer. 1973. Additional records of non-fish prey taken by ospreys. Wilson Bulletin 85:468-470.

 

[Firecrest5]

Scuba

There is not that much difference in the power in a female gos and a female redtail's foot. You also have to bear in mind that with most prey items, especially larger prey, it isn't the power to crush that kills the prey, it is the talon going in and doing the damage. Many prey items will still be alive when the hawk commences eating it!

Thereis also no power difference between captive-bred and wild raptors, the only real difference would be in fitness levels.

Rgds
F5

gos is not strong enough, i read some place great horned owls doing it? gos might do a small one like young. I wonder if a female redtail can do a female mink.

I think birds in the wild raised are much stronger than captive raised if they are BOP.

But not a male goshawk. A female might have a chance I am not sure but i still dont think. A stronger red tail female maybe but still never heard of it.

Rabbit skulls are very fragile and they tear and break apart very fast if you ever kept rabbits as pets or even rescued a wild rabbit you would know it, that is why hawks kill them so easy. ANimals in the weasel family do not break apart like that other than ferrets which are domestic and lost a lot of their original make up.

 

[scuba0095]

according to falconers who have experience with both there is a world of a diff between them. The goshawk did not do anything to that mink.


Goshawk like falconers is a bird killer mostly , killing birds is more technique and speed then power. Goshawks power is more like a buzzard, probably less lb for lb as seed in videos when they ground fight. It may kill a buzzard by suprise using its better agility. But on the ground when binding talons the buzzard should get the upper hand.

Harris hawks are inbetween goshawks and red tails as far as power. This is all comming from maybe 100 or so falconers who fly these birds? If you do not have personal experience flying more than 10 of each species you cannot go by what you think and have to go by what falconers say.

Red tails kill big snakes and mammals.

I use to think the goshawk was the strongest because red tails always seem so passive getting beaten up by sea gulls and crows all the time here. They are just slow flyers

abnormally powerful small raptors are ornate hawk eagles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvzOYNO1fGQ

it will take anything and seems a lot stronger than changable HE

 

[Bowlander]

Ospreys are purely fish eaters, so that sounds extremely unlikely.

He saw it in Dumfries and Galloway and is an experienced observer, he had a good view of it.

I guess it could have been weed/nesting material but I think he'd know the difference.

 

[chris butterworth]

This thing about Goshawk v Red-tailed Hawk confuses me. I've never seen a Goshawk next to a Red-tailed Hawk but I have seen Common Buzzard next to both. A female Goshawk ( here in Europe, at least ) can be as big as a Buzzard, and therefore a Red-tailed Hawk. Buteos tend to use their feet to hold down prey while using the beak to kill. Accipters have very specialised central and outer toes and talons that both grip and pierce. These two talons act like a pair of stilettos being plunged in. It's nothing to do with weight but technique. A Eur. Sparrowhawk can easily take a Wood Pigeon ( equivalent of a Sharp-shinned Hawk taking a bird the size of a Band-tailed Pigeon for Nth. Americans ) and Weasels often take Rabbits far, far larger than themselves. As for the claim that certain birds will only take certain prey, most predators are / have to be opportunists and will take whatever is to hand. Comparing falconers birds to wild birds is actually a false comparison as a falconers bird is operating in a completely unnatural way in that it's not hunting for food while wild bird is hunting for survival. American Mink are, like all mustelids, supreme predators but will, like all medium sized mustelids, be predated by many other species. It would be no surprise to me to find they occur on the food list of quite a few raptors.

Chris

 

[rosbifs]

Goshawks also 'run' under bushes to take rabbits etc. - amazing huntng technique....

 

[JustinG]

No they are not - many mammals recorded in their diet..

I wouldn't go to the point of saying 'many'. They only catch mammals in times of desperation/hunger, or when an extraordinary opportunity arises - i.e when the mammal is sick/injured.

Ospreys have specialised enzymes in their stomach to digest fish bones and skin etc. They find it difficult to digest fur of a mammal, and also their bones.

I have followed Ospreys, and I have been a volunteer at an Osprey project since 2008, meeting the likes of Iolo Williams, Chris Packham, and the ultimate expert, Roy Dennis. I am not just a random person writing this out who isn't sure on what they're typing. I have asked these types of questions to experts.

 

[JustinG]

He saw it in Dumfries and Galloway and is an experienced observer, he had a good view of it.

I guess it could have been weed/nesting material but I think he'd know the difference.

Was it recently he saw this take place? It wasn't Loch Ken was it?

It sounds very unlikely, as fish are a plenty in the UK in the summer - an Osprey should have no problem catching fish. Whether it was a complete accident of an Osprey diving into a lake and catching a Mink, I don't know. It's been heard of before of an Osprey catching a mammal from the water, but very rarely.

 

[Firecrest5]

I'm sorry scuba, but in my opinion (as a falconer who has flown all three species you mention) your assertions are very wide of the mark.

according to falconers who have experience with both there is a world of a diff between them.

Goshawk like falconers is a bird killer mostly , killing birds is more technique and speed then power.

Not at all. the catching of the prey species is very different tactically, the killing is exactly the same - head bind and major talons eventually hit the spot and the prey dies, sometimes a lingering death whilst being eaten alive.

Harris hawks are inbetween goshawks and red tails as far as power.

This is simply not true,

This is all comming from maybe 100 or so falconers who fly these birds? If you do not have personal experience flying more than 10 of each species you cannot go by what you think and have to go by what falconers say.

I have hunted each species so know what I am talking about, I dont wish to argue so that is hopefully all I will say on the matter.

 

[scuba0095]

IF a buzzard tried to ground fight a red tail the way it does with a goshawk it would be killed very fast. Just the way that bald eagle killed a red tail.

Buzzards have killed goshawks (and vice versa) never heard of one killing a red tail, the ones that tried get killed fast.


Red tails are beasts the way they can man handle a six foot rat or gopher snake that is true power. A goshawk could not dream of pulling that off.


I dont know about osprey when you look at an osprey foot it looks very powerful with huge talons. But they dont seem aggressive, i saw a gbb gull beat the crap out of one grab its wing and flip it and force it to drop its fish. I could not believe a big gull would be able to smash around such a powerful bird.

goshawk is still a very impressive deadly bird but the speed and agility is what makes it that way and the aggression, in a real ground fight there is not that much power compared to the buteos, or owls, or hawk eagles. Falcons are also deadly killers that rely on speed impact and deadly beaks.

ALways seem like owls had very deadly beaks because they would take the heads right off big snakes, i have seen them take heads off past birds i use to keep as big as a peafowl. I am sure they did not use their feet for that. Always thought the owls had it all the very strong beak and talons but still nothing like a golden. Red tails and goshawks would not dare attack such birds. IF they did I dont think they would win.

I would love to have a falconry L but not to use birds to hunt for me, just to have in case for work if i ever get a chance to work with them in rehab or public education as i study for vet tech.

 

[merlin 1220]

Hi scuba
i have witnessed on four occasions a female redtail taking mink, also this was a falconers bird ,,,flying weight 2lb 14ozs

 

[chris butterworth]

I'm not sure where you got your information about Red-tailed Hawks killing Buzzards from but, they come from different continents, so, unless one or the other was a falconers bird, they would never come into contact with each other. Red-tailed Hawk, like Common Buzzard, are medium sized raptors and generalist predators that fill roughly the same niche in the Americas and the Old World respectively. The anecdote about Great Black-backed Gull and Osprey is understandable when you realise the Gull is both a top predator in its own right and a lot heavier and more powerful than an Osprey.

Chris

 

[scuba0095]

falconers bird it was

merlin were the red tails able to kill adult mink?

how is a gbb gull a lot more heavy? osprey are 3lbs gbb gull 4lbs not much of a weight diff. THe osprey has massive talons and a powerful beak the gbb gull has neither just a HUGE massive throat and a nasty temper. I cant see how a gbb gull would be more powerful ? They have a more powerful build than other gulls like herring gulls and are strong for a gull even lb for lb but they did not look like they could match a large raptor. Now that i think about it there is a video of one catching and forcing a female p falcon to drop a pigeon.

HEre on top of highways or even walmart i see a lot of ring bill gulls attacking red tails and even making contact. I never hear about them doing this anywhere else. They are the biggest most common gull here in the city also. Maybe on the coast they leave mobbing to bigger gulls. Here crows will join them and give them a hand also.

I saw a feral tom cat kill a mink when i told a farmer that he said its not as uncommon as I think so as tough as they are they must have weak spots, the cat just kept holding on to its throat, i didnt get involved. It was a small female though not a big male. OR maybe the cat was just big.

 

[merlin 1220]

Hi Scuba
Yes , killed all four, last one she took was in a 40ft plus tree , the mink appeared to be going to squirrels drey

 

[scuba0095]

you sure was not a marten? are these american mink or the european mink?

american mink seem to be causing hell on uk birds and even uk mammels like euro mink and polecats. The only thing they dont seem to effect is feral cats, badgers, otters and red foxes. It is just so brutal seeing one attach to a gannet or a swan.

 

[merlin 1220]

european mink scuba, will not fly her were there are martens/red squirrels,main quarry grey squirrel/rabbit

 

[chris butterworth]

how is a gbb gull a lot more heavy? osprey are 3lbs gbb gull 4lbs not much of a weight diff. THe osprey has massive talons and a powerful beak the gbb gull has neither just a HUGE massive throat and a nasty temper. I cant see how a gbb gull would be more powerful ? They have a more powerful build than other gulls like herring gulls and are strong for a gull even lb for lb but they did not look like they could match a large raptor. Now that i think about it there is a video of one catching and forcing a female p falcon to drop a pigeon.

HEre on top of highways or even walmart i see a lot of ring bill gulls attacking red tails and even making contact. I never hear about them doing this anywhere else. They are the biggest most common gull here in the city also. Maybe on the coast they leave mobbing to bigger gulls. Here crows will join them and give them a hand also.

A 25% difference in weight, for birds, is a lot and, as I said, Great Blackbacks are powerful predators in their own right. The fact Osprey have talons and a hooked beak is immaterial when a Great Blackback is hunting as they tend to be relentless, they'll even have a go at White-tailed Eagle carrying prey. To compare them with Ring-billed or Herring Gull is a mistake. As for mobbing, I've seen Barn Swallows, Pipits and other small passerines mobbing raptors as large as Golden Eagle and falcons such as Eur. Hobby and Eleonoras Falcon that have evolved as specialist small bird hunters, and making contact. The question still remains, could raptors such as Goshawk or Red-tailed Hawk kill an Americàn Mink? The answer has to be "Yes, They are both capable of killing Mink".

Chris

 

[saluki]

european mink scuba, will not fly her were there are martens/red squirrels,main quarry grey squirrel/rabbit

What country was this please?

Cheers
Jonathan