Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

[KnockerNorton]

The Catterick pair no longer breed because someone shoot the female.IT was shot soon after the programme was on the television about them someone who was watching that programme must have decided to get rid of them.

Are people still coming out with this bollox on here? For the umpteenth time, the 2 pellets (note, just 2 pellets) that were found in that Eagle Owl were almost certainly not sufficient to kill it. In fact, the bird was so decomposed that cause of death COULD NOT BE ESTABLISHED with absolute certainty, but it was considered most likely to have been STARVATION. Not gunshot, STARVATION. The shot may have been in the bird for years. I have seen the bird, it's liver is in a freezer 50 yards away, and I am mates with the bloke who did to post-mortem. He's not too impressed with the press release that followed his report (which was totally twisted by the police wildlife liason guy). So, that's the facts. Nobody went up there after the programme and blew its head off. The bird probably starved to death, which was probably nothing to do with it having a couple of pellets in the pec muscle. It was, after all, quite old.

 

[patmartin]

Are people still coming out with this bollox on here? For the umpteenth time, the 2 pellets (note, just 2 pellets) that were found in that Eagle Owl were almost certainly not sufficient to kill it. In fact, the bird was so decomposed that cause of death COULD NOT BE ESTABLISHED with absolute certainty, but it was considered most likely to have been STARVATION. Not gunshot, STARVATION. The shot may have been in the bird for years. I have seen the bird, it's liver is in a freezer 50 yards away, and I am mates with the bloke who did to post-mortem. He's not too impressed with the press release that followed his report (which was totally twisted by the police wildlife liason guy). So, that's the facts. Nobody went up there after the programme and blew its head off. The bird probably starved to death, which was probably nothing to do with it having a couple of pellets in the pec muscle. It was, after all, quite old.

What size shot did they recover from this birds corpse,I heard from a good source that they were SSG(SWAN SHOT),two of which would be more than enough to do serious damage,correct me if I'm wrong.Pat

 

[patmartin]

I'm not suggesting you dont know what you are talking about,however imagine you have two SSG shot blasted into your chest,you would certainly have extreme difficulty lifting your arm above waist height,that is if you survived the initial trauma,a bird with a injury of this type would find it extremely difficult to fly never mind hunt for food.You would'nt happen to be a gamekeeper by any chance.Pat

 

[dbradnum]

Pat: is your "good source" better informed than the person who did the post mortem?

 

[patmartin]

Pat: is your "good source" better informed than the person who did the post mortem?

ask the guy who did the post mortem if you can find out who he is,I dont really want to get involved in this thread but its "supposedly" well known that two SSG shot were recovered from the corpse and that "fact", "supposedly" came from the person who did the post mortem,like I said before correct me if I'm wrong.Pat

 

[Keith Reeder]

Hi Pat,

Poecile does know the guy who did the post mortem, and it is well documented on this thread and elsewhere that in the opinion of the people who were actually involved, there's no way to know whether the shot contributed in any way to the death of the bird, but that in their opinion it was more likely that old age and/or starvation were the key causes of the bird's demise.

 

[Collster]

And probably just a coincidence it happened not long after the programme ;-(

 

[Jos Stratford]

there's no way to know whether the shot contributed in any way to the death of the bird.

To my point of view, it is rather irrelevant whether the shot did actually result in the death or not, the fact is somebody shot it and presumably did wish to kill the bird.

The only relevance is that the shot appeared to have been in the body 'for some time' according to earlier conversations with Poecile, thus pre-dated the TV program. The relevance of this is that the TV program cannot be assumed to have led to the death of the bird.

 

[Farnboro John]

Quite. How would one go about confirming or denying such a report?

It might need the author of the report to come forward publicly, given that there doesn't seem to be any enthusiasm for publishing news in the British ornithological hierarchy.

Or is there some way of accessing French ringing recovery/control information? Requiring access even under some sort of FOI legislation?

John

 

[shark attack]

What size shot did they recover from this birds corpse,I heard from a good source that they were SSG(SWAN SHOT),two of which would be more than enough to do serious damage,correct me if I'm wrong.Pat

This thread seems to have done full circle here & we have ended up right where we left of.

Two pellets only.... it disturbs me on here that people think that two pellets seems to be OK.

Does not make any difference whether it was two or two thousand the fact is that someone shot the bird.

The best thing that could happen with these birds is that they should be well publicised & monitored & even maybe a live cam to the nest at breeding times just like they do with loads of Osprey sites Sea Eagles etc.

This would allow people to see them & more importantly stop people from shooting them etc.

 

[James Lowther]

Two pellets only.... it disturbs me on here that people think that two pellets seems to be OK..

no-one's said it's ok, merely that it wasn't necessarily fatal

Does not make any difference whether it was two or two thousand the fact is that someone shot the bird.

the point is persistent rumours abound that the bird was shot and killed after and probably because of the programme.

The facts don't bear that out

read the thread and that's all poecile is saying

 

[KnockerNorton]

That's it exactly, James. Cheers.

 

[Collster]

Has to be said that some comments on the programme ( later taken out when repeated) were pretty ambiguous as to the protection afforded these birds

 

[patmartin]

That's it exactly, James. Cheers.

the fact remains that this bird "was" shot,the fact that 2 "pellets" were recovered from its chest surely is more than enough to prove this.If the bird cannot fly surely it could'nt hunt,the fact it could'nt hunt to me suggest's the bird went hungry,and surely if the bird went hungry for long enough the bird would eventually die of starvation.The pectoral muscle in a bird is in most birds probably the biggest muscle in its body,convince me otherwise that an injury to this muscle would not stop a bird flying.Pat

 

[James Lowther]

A) no-one's saying it wasn't shot - it obviously was

B) whether it contributed to the bird's eventual death or not (and the individual who carried out the post mortem apparently wasn't convinced) there's still no link to the programme

so what are you arguing about??

 

[patmartin]

the point is persistent rumours abound that the bird was shot and killed after and probably because of the programme.

The persistent rumour from where I stand seems to be that this bird "was" shot,simple as that.Pat

 

[saluki]

The persistent rumour from where I stand seems to be that this bird "was" shot,simple as that.Pat

That isn't rumour Pat, it's fact.

Are we all missing the point to your argument? I certainly am . . .

Jonathan

 

[patmartin]

That isn't rumour Pat, it's fact.

Are we all missing the point to your argument? I certainly am . . .

Jonathan

The fact that this bird was shot almost certainly contributed to its early demise,despite the fact that some people suggest otherwise,I'm sure you dont need me to tell you how to work that one out.I'm not interested in an argument,and I dont really want to go over old ground,but Bird of Prey persecution is an everyday occurance in the North of England and despite the smokescreen laid by the hunting/shooting fraternity the facts are there. :flyaway:

 

[saluki]

The fact that this bird was shot almost certainly contributed to its early demise,despite the fact that some people suggest otherwise

You're making awfully big assumptions Pat. Birds receive gunshot wounds every day and recover, it isn't at all unusual to discover old shot in geese or ducks for instance. If a bird were shot with SG's at some distance (and my bet is that this was probably the case) the pellets may not penetrate deeply - extremely painful I'm sure, but the bird may well make a full recovery.

Jonathan

 

[KnockerNorton]

the fact remains that this bird "was" shot,the fact that 2 "pellets" were recovered from its chest surely is more than enough to prove this.If the bird cannot fly surely it could'nt hunt,the fact it could'nt hunt to me suggest's the bird went hungry,and surely if the bird went hungry for long enough the bird would eventually die of starvation.The pectoral muscle in a bird is in most birds probably the biggest muscle in its body,convince me otherwise that an injury to this muscle would not stop a bird flying.Pat

You're talking out of your arse. As has been said, it is quite common to find birds with old encapsulated shot embedded in the pecs (which is where the shot was on this brid, in the pecs). They can fly and live on perfectly well, often for years. Ask the folks at Slimbridge how many of their swan X Rays have shot in them. Plenty. You're clearly not a vet, or a scientist with a specialism in birds, and you didn't do the post mortem, so stop arguing because you're just plain wrong.