Eastern Stonechat? SE Romania, 05.06.2023 (1 Viewer)

[mi-d]

Hello,
Could this be Saxicola maurus?

 

[kuzeycem]

European

 

[mi-d]

European

The large white patch on hindneck made me think it could be siberian. I have never seen that on other stonechats. Why do you think it is european?

 

[mi-d]

The amont of orange can differ on the european one (i have a picture with one with just a small spot on the chest, just like the siberian one). Looking at online pictures with the siberian one, some have even more orange than this...

 

[kuzeycem]

Male Siberian would have jet-black axillaries... yours are about as white as it gets.

 

[mi-d]

Male Siberian would have jet-black axillaries... yours are about as white as it

so, with the white patch on hindneck it can be rubicola, but without the black underwing coverts it cant be maurus? Collins says that this characteristic "can still be difficult to judge".
What about the lenght of the primaries? To me, they look a little more longer than the european one...

 

[01101001]

very outdated taxonomy (armenicus now a junior synonym of variegatus and conspecific with maurus)

Plate 41 - Pipits, stonechats and whinchats - A Field Guide to Birds of Armenia ::Acopian Center for the Environment

Common Stonechat, Siberian Stonechat - A Field Guide to Birds of Armenia ::Acopian Center for the Environment

 

[mi-d]

very outdated taxonomy (armenicus now a junior synonym of variegatus and conspecific with maurus)

Plate 41 - Pipits, stonechats and whinchats - A Field Guide to Birds of Armenia ::Acopian Center for the Environment

Common Stonechat, Siberian Stonechat - A Field Guide to Birds of Armenia ::Acopian Center for the Environment

Ok, now i am really confused African stonechat - Wikipedia
"In the past S. torquatus usually referred to the entire "common stonechat" superspecies and some sources[4] still keep it that way, but all available evidence strongly supports full species status for the European (S. rubicola) and the Siberian stonechat (S. maurus) of temperate Eurasia"
you say that this taxonomy is outdated?

 

[01101001]

By not including Amur Stonechat, S. stejnegeri? Yes, I think so. (Otherwise, it's used in its former sense in that guide.)

 

[mi-d]

By not including Amur Stonechat, S. stejnegeri? Yes, I think so. (Otherwise, it's used in its former sense in that guide.)

Ok, so in your opinion, what species can be the one i took pictures with?

 

[01101001]

I don't know, but, from what I've read in the internet today, the black armpits are indeed a very good feature for seperating the two species.

EDIT: Sadly, they're not shown on these plates (if they were considered an important ID feature back then, variegatus (= armenicus) would probably be grouped with maurus and not rubicola). That's what it says about the orange on the breast and belly and the white on the neck:

Male has brown-black head and upperparts with variably-sized white patches on neck and wing; variably orange breast and flanks.