Eos 20D - Wildlife Lense? (1 Viewer)

[nigelblake]

The benefits of using a zoom lens for bird photography are that you can reframe your image without changing position, i.e. moving closer to, or further from your subject without risking flushing it. This of course is even more useful when working from a hide when its impossible to change position.
The simple fact is that a modern zoom lens will out-resolve all but the larger (11Mp+) sensors and indeed most film (except perhaps fuji velvia). There is some fall-off in edge definition with zoom lenses, however this is also true of prime lenses too, and in most cases the edges of frame in most bird images is the domain of the out of focus background, so this is rarely an issue to worry about.

Whilst it is possible to crop into a DSLR image, it is only possible to a certain extent as the resolving power of any sensor is finite, and if the subject is small in frame (further away) it may well be that the shot would have been better digiscoped as there is the benefit of higher magnification, this spreads the image over more pixels even when the sensor of a compact camera may be less Mp.

The crop of the Little Stint was at 1-1 and was more intended to demonstrate the detail contained in a smaller section of the overall image, it was at 72dpi, monitor resolution, for printing it is best to to use a dpi of 250-300, and as such the head shot in the crop would not print to a size much more than perhaps 6X4 inches. That said the 20D will produce pretty spectacular A3 prints, but only from full, or near full frame images.

To get better resolution you can use an interpolation program, 'Genuine fractals' a 'Photoshop' plug-in, is very good but the long and the short of it is that you really do need to get closer to the birds than you would with digiscoping.

 

[stevo]

Hi Nigel

Thanks for clarifying the subject.

Regards Steve.

 

[tracker]

Yes, a very thorough and appreciated break down of information. Thanks Nigel.

Funny, but ive just been reading about 'Genuine Fractals' software. May have a closer look.

So i guess the 'tracking' skills and stealth of a DSLR bird photographer come into their own. I just have a feeling, until i can afford to get a lense good enough for some decent bird/wildlife shots, i may feel rather frustrated/deflated.

Lots to think about...

Once again, thanks for all replies to my initial question.

*as a side note, is there anyway of knowing if a 20D camera is in fact genuine UK or an import?*

Tom

 

[christineredgate]

Tom,here are a couple of pics taken on the same day ,in the same place.One is taken with the 4500 plus scope and the other taken with the 20D 100-400 lens.
May give you an idea of the difference between the 2 ways of taking shots.I call the second pic"Prehistoric Herons".

 

[tracker]

Hi Christine,

Thanks for the examples. I take it the one on the left is the 4500?

How much crawling around do you do Christine to get close to your subjects?....

Im wondering whether to stick with digiscoping. Maybe its just DSLR beginners nerves....lol

Ive just been reading on another forum about a seeming weakness of the 100-400mm IS, the bearings developing probs after a year or two..... :eek!:

Tom

 

[christineredgate]

Tom,I have not heard of any probs re the lens,but perhaps this is why some people suggest that a non IS lens is better.Yes there is a noticeable difference between digiscoping and the slr when it comes to distance,but the Slr even with the small lens (the kit one) does take some very good close shots.

 

[nigelblake]

Hi Christine,

Thanks for the examples. I take it the one on the left is the 4500?

How much crawling around do you do Christine to get close to your subjects?....

Im wondering whether to stick with digiscoping. Maybe its just DSLR beginners nerves....lol

Ive just been reading on another forum about a seeming weakness of the 100-400mm IS, the bearings developing probs after a year or two..... :eek!:

Tom

I have had my 100-400mm for 5 years, since it first came on the market, and have not had any problems with it, and it gets used a hell of a lot. This thing about the bearings is a load of 'oblate sphereoid reproductive apendages'

 

[James Eaton]

I only bought my 100-400mm IS lens in August, and within 6 weeks developed a problem the lens wouldnt retract to 100mm, only to 150mm, then, to make matters worse, it wouldn't focus below 3m! So I sent it off to Canon, and I'm still waiting for it to be repaired (they are trying to order some new parts for it). Other than that though, I cant recommed the lens enough, brilliant for me, as I handhold it, and want something compact to travel with. Worth every penny if you ask me

all the best

 

[Al Downie]

Well you can't all be wrong about zooms, I guess, and Nigel's pictures speak for themselves (that puffin with the mouthful of sandeels is one of the best shots I've ever seen!). Where's that humble pie...

Nigel, if you had to keep only one lens for your bird photography, would it be the 100-400 zoom or the fixed 600/f4?

Cheers,

Al

 

[Scott67]

I have a Canon EOS50E and bought a 400HSM lens earlier this year at a reduced price. I phoned Sigma straight away and they were able to take the lens in and re-chip it ( they asked for the lens receipt but they didn't require a receipt for a new Canon body).

I've not been able to try it on either a 20D or 10D yet, but I did have the opportunity to try a 1Ds and it worked fine on that!

I would contact Sigma now and talk to them -they're very friendly - to see if your 300mm is still re-chippable.

Cheers Adey,

Luckily I'm friends with my local camera shop owner, who is currently waiting for his 20D to be delivered, So I can try out my Lens.

I think HSM Sigmas are okay though, but my 28-70 f2.8 will be useless, and too old for re-chipping.......17-40L then instead...yum yum..

 

[Gashead]

I'd say save up for the 100-400, superb lens but a lot of people get great results with the Bigma (Sigmas 50-500) at abt US1,000.

These were taken with a 100-400 and converter (1.4) but together cost over US1,500.

http://www.pbase.com/clive_temple/birds&page=all

 

[MikeB.]

In the US some Canon stuff is MUCH cheaper, check

Canon Imported Price : $ 6,899.95
Telephoto EF 600mm f/4.0L IS Image Stabilizer USM Autofocus

at B+H in New York:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

Which is about 3 730 quid. A friend of mine bought quite a lot of kit there, and you can negotiate further apparently! Worth getting on a plane...

Mike

 

[graham catley]

As a new owner of a 300D and a 100-400 zoom I have only been out once for 2 hours in the sun on Friday afternoon---as a novice DSLR user I kept altering the setting without realising it and ending up with slow shutter speeds etc---the SEO's did not perform as well as usual and looking at the shots on the camera I was somewhat disappointed---on putting them on the computer they looked a fair bit better---although a much smaller image than with the digi-scope combo they crop down to a good printable size and the flight shots are a lot lot easier than with the scope----a long way to go but it seems there is room for both methods is you can afford the two sets of equipment and have a good donkey to carry it all around---the third SEO shot was taken hand held, 30 minutes after sunset with the camera on ISO 800--noisy but I was amazed how sharp it was with the Stabiliser---

 

[christineredgate]

Good shots Graham.

 

[tracker]

Excellent shots, Graham. Looks like your having great fun with that equipment. Thanks for posting these examples.

Thanks to everyone who has added to my enquiry....

Tom

 

[Simonph]

Hi Tom, for what its worth, I'll add my views as a DSLR beginner.

I never digiscoped - but plunged straight into DSLR. I now have a Nikon D70 and a Sigma 50-500m lens. All I can say is that I feel like its an adventure each time I go out birding - and Im very quickly becoming more of a bird photographer than watcher! As you'll see from my limited gallery, some of my early shots were pretty shoddy!!

Yet for me - they were very exciting - I really felt like I could just pick up my cam and take it anywhere and shoot out of the car window really easily. (usually resting the lens on the window half down). I have more recent shots that I am yet to put in my gallery which I am really pleased with. I'm definitely improving!! - it takes some learning...

I imagine a DSLR is more flexible - certainly I can pick it up and shoot a pic within a few seconds - up in the sky, or a bird flying past. Can you do that with digiscopes? That really gives you a 'got it!' feeling when something whizzes towards you and then past, like the Harriers in my gallery.

Basically - I feel its all about trial and error - which makes it all the more rewarding when you got one that is really nice. Call me silly - but even though I have seen that digiscoping produces some really lovely shots - I always felt it looked a bit easy and was like 'cheating'! And as you can see from other photos - I feel that digiscope shots are are more of a detailed photo record of the bird - DSLRs tend to capture the bird and the 'atmosphere' of the setting (although many are cropped close to post on here). It all depends on the kind of photos you want I guess.

Anyway - Im still experimenting and learning, which is very rewarding. Good luck with your decision! Updates in my gallery soon!

 

[tracker]

Hi Simon,

As much as i enjoy digiscoping, i am feeling increasingly frustrated at its limitations regarding action shots, in particular with birds.

It can be some stunt standing with a digiscope setup, trying to shoot a bird flying past, even a flock. Getting the subject in your frame is quite some challenge, then keeping it there long enough to photo is the miracle part.......

How you describe the fun you are having with DSLR sounds very appealing, and i do appreciate the suggestions you make.

Had a look through your gallery, and you have shots there that i'd be very happy to have captured.

Have you noticed any limitations regarding the Sigma 50-500mm lense?

Thanks for your comments......... :t:

Tom

ps...the enclosed picture was taken yesterday, whilst digiscoping. It may capture the atmosphere of the day i had, but it falls very short of the kind of images i really want.

 

[PWG]

I came into birding this year from photography/drawing and wanting some subjects. Having blown the budget at the time on a 300D and a couple of cheaper zooms the sigma 28-300 and 175-500 I didn't want to change again or spend out for a quality fixed or zoom lens so went to digiscoping using my 300D. That way I can have the lighter zoom in the bag and use the standard lens with a s/h swaro ST80HD I managed to buy.

The 175-500 zoom gets reasonable results but loses out nowadays on weight as it weighs more than the scope... My digiscoping efforts are improving although after looking through your gallery I nearly gave up trying.

I agree about action shots/digiscoping, finding and following the action can be quite fun at times. A high res DSLR with a reasonable or good lens will win for action most times and if it's further away the high res will help so you can crop and still get a reasonable shot.

Perhaps when the bank manager has forgiven me I may look at something a little more exotic, and the porter sounds a good idea.

If your results with the DSLR are anything like what's in your gallery I don't think you'll have many problems. Just enjoy it and if it doesn't work out there is always ebay...

 

[christineredgate]

Tom considering the grey day,and the distance you must have been from these birds,you did very well to get a reasonable shot.I think at times,we are all trying for the impossible.I think taking anything like a reasonable bird image is a challenge.Don't get too despondent,Tom.You have some superb pics in your gallery.Just think of the Kingfishers for instance.Some of the brilliant shots we see in the gallery these days,have been taken using DSLR's with say a 500 or 600 lens.None of us mere mortals can compete with those,but at least as has already been mentioned,it is quicker to grab the SLR with it's lens ready attached,for the opportunist shot,than it is to set up ones scope etc,so really it is a question of taking advantage of the opportunity when it occurs with the equipment one has to hand,and hoping for the best.

 

[dash]

picked up my 20d last week excellent images but no birds as yet due to the bad weather were having, anyway i have treid it with a canon 75-300 and with the 1.6 convertion it gives me 480 which i find fine, if you go down the sigma line last i heard sigma were swapping the chips in there lens when requested to do so (free) if you go for the 170-500 it will give you a 800 top end lens and i doubt you will need a 1.5 or 2 times convertor, if you are going for an canon IS lens do you think you will be using the IS often enough to warrent the extra cost if you main images are taken on a tripod as the IS interferes if you are working on a tripod and has to be switched of, hope this helps.