Feedback wanted on possible choices (1 Viewer)

[Pzler]

So I started birding a few years back with some old bino's. I traveled to a store after a while and bought some nice binos in my budget. I tried several models and ended up buying the kowa BD II 8x42.

Some time after that I got the opportunity to buy a used but good condition kowa tsn 883 with tripod etc for 1000 euros and jumped on it.

Now it is a few years later and my passion for the hobby has grown even more, and I also have a bit more spending money, so I am wondering the following, what would make the most sence to spend some extra money on?
I don't think it would help to upgrade my kowa tsn 883. I had the chance to compare them to different scopes and they are just as good as a Swarovski as far as I could see.

But I sometimes wish I had something easier to pack like either a small travel scope or high power image stabilised binos.
I am mostly tempted by the kite APC 16x42, the Swarovski ATC and the vortex razor HD13-39x56. (I have not tested any of these myself)

but another part of me is wondering that If I am going to spend a lot on optics it should not be on something I just use sometimes and should first upgrade my day to day use binoculars. I have never really tried high end binos myself and really have no idea how much better something like trinovids, the Zeiss sfl or the Swarovski nl pure will be.

at some point I will have to travel to a store where I can try for myself but it is not close by for me and I want to be prepared and now the pros and cons in the field before I make the plunge.

any tips or feedback?

 

[MiddleRiver]

I love my Kowa 553 just because there is seldom reason not to pack it. It means my pack/luggage is lighter/smaller, tripod is lighter, etc.
If money is burning a hole in your pocket: have you ever been interested in photography? A camera, even a bridge type, adds another dimension to birding as well as ID.

Of course I could also just say : if it ain’t broken don’t fix it ;-)

 

[tehri]

Always the same information omitted in this type of requested help : BUDGET ?!
What is your maximum budget ?...
This will greatly direct those who could guide you.

 

[Pzler]

@MiddleRiver the kowa 553 could be good. That putts me at 3
kowa's. Photography however has never really interested me.

@tehri I have put aside 100 euro a month just for this purpose for 2 years now. So 2400 right now. If I need more I will save up a bit longer.

However just because I have it doesn't mean i want to spend more unless it brings me something meaningful

So to make my question a bit more concrete, does anyone have any experience with high powered image stabilized binos and compact spotters. What are the pros and cons of either option in the field?

 

[Maljunulo]

@MiddleRiver the kowa 553 could be good. That putts me at 3
kowa's. Photography however has never really interested me.

@tehri I have put aside 100 euro a month just for this purpose for 2 years now. So 2400 right now. If I need more I will save up a bit longer.

However just because I have it doesn't mean i want to spend more unless it brings me something meaningful

So to make my question a bit more concrete, does anyone have any experience with high powered image stabilized binos and compact spotters. What are the pros and cons of either option in the field?

I would advise you not to spend less.

Optics are not a good place to try to save money by spending as little as possible.

Jut my opinion.

 

[has530]

So to make my question a bit more concrete, does anyone have any experience with high powered image stabilized binos and compact spotters. What are the pros and cons of either option in the field?

I have been using the Canon 15x50 IS for about a year and a half for times when I don't feel like carrying my scope. I have to say I love them. The pros are that it shows so much more than any handheld binos ever could all while suspended from my chest with no need for a tripod. They also give a very wide FOV and are sharp to the edge (I also use them for astronomy where this is more meaningful). The cons are that IS binos will never match the reach of a spotting scope. 15x is much better than 10x handheld but still no match for 20-60x on a tripod. The other with the Canon specifically is they show more CA when the IS is on (I think has to do with the way the IS works via tilting the prisms). It is not unbearable but it isn't an ooh ahh view like through your kowa scope.

 

[fazalmajid]

I would suggest you visit House of Outdoor & Optics in Maarssen.

Your Kowas are pretty much best-in-class scopes (although Kowa recently released their successor), very little point trying to upgrade.

I have the Kite APC 16x42. They are reasonably light for stabilized binoculars, but have significant chromatic aberration due to not having ED glass. The Fuji TSX1440 is best in class, but exceedingly heavy. Some on this forum have spoken approvingly of the Sig Sauer Zulu6 HDX stabilized binoculars that do have ED glass.

 

[William Lewis]

That's a top effort saving up the cash. It does create a slightly jarring contrast with the warranties on image stabilized binoculars though as they are virtually all 2 year long on the electronics...

I'd agree that the 883 is an excellent scope and as your eyes have told you already it's probably not worth upgrading in that size class.

A smaller scope could prove useful - something like the 553 MiddleRiver mentioned, or a Nikon ed 50. Either would be an insignificant carry with a monopod - the ed50 has some good fixed mag eye pieces too, unlike the 553 or Swarovski atc.

As for conventional binoculars what I've found is that once you get to something like a Nikon e2 in a porro or something like a Kowa Genesis in a roof you get a view that removes most of the doubt about what your looking at within their useful range. There is much less of the "is that a lump of mud or a red legged partridge" or "is that a bittern or a clump of reeds". It's an asset worth having in your daily carry.

Take your current bins to a good shop, Fazal's suggestion above is one of the best and have a play with what they have. Maybe if you have access to it use the "try Zeiss" scheme or similar.

Take you time and enjoy the fruits of your endeavours.

Will

 

[Elkhornsun]

When I buy a new binocular it is to provide some extra feature not found in my current collection. I added the Swarovski 10x25 binos to have something light enough to hang off my neck while using my camera. I added the smallish and inexpensive Nikon 8x30 bino to have something I could leave in my truck so I always had them available.

I tried several 12x binoculars to gain the magnification over my 10x ones and still be able to use them hand held. I have found that greater than 12x I will need to use a tripod at which point I may as well carry around my scope. Where I do a lot of birding the critters are often more than 100 yards away and I need 12x binos or a scope to be able to identify them.

I tried out 5 different 12x50 binoculars from Vortex, Steiner, Swarovski, before settling on the Vortex Razor HD, the ones that I thought provided the best overall value with no performance issues. B&H makes it very easy to return binoculars so I was able to compare multiple ones and then return the runner up ones.

 

[Rg548]

Try warranted 2nd hand from a dealer if you want to sample high end optics.
If they are great for you, keep them, if you don't like them, send them back, or sell them on for little or no loss.
High end optics is an expensive game, and you rarely get it right first time.
You can lose a lot !!

 

[Patudo]

but another part of me is wondering that If I am going to spend a lot on optics it should not be on something I just use sometimes and should first upgrade my day to day use binoculars.

That, to be honest, sounds like a very good idea. It makes a lot of sense for the binocular that you use the most to be your best one.

I have never really tried high end binos myself and really have no idea how much better something like trinovids, the Zeiss sfl or the Swarovski nl pure will be.

then (now that you can afford them) you definitely need to try them. Some people honestly see very little difference between a £2000+ and a £1000 binocular, or don't consider the differences they see to be worth the big jump in price. Because binoculars are so personal this is really something you need to figure out for yourself.

The fact that you have built a good knowledge base when it comes to birding will help you - you will have a better sense of how the qualities (brightness, sharpness) and capabilities (field of view) of a higher quality binocular will help you (or may not!) in the field.

 

[Pzler]

Thanks for the tips.

I think a compact spotting scope, while cool, will be just to specialised for me. I like the idea of them, but I have hiked 10 km with my big spotting scope with little trouble. (I have a backpack system for it)

The image stabilised seems like something I really have regular use for. I just worry about the electronics breaking.

So I think I will start with looking into upgrading my kowa BD II 8x42. That would be cool because I really like them so if I can find something even more amazing the would be huge.

@fazalmajid how good is house of outdoor at letting you try things and taking your time to compare? The vogelbescherming shop is not very far from there as well and I will get a member discount there, what store would be better for trying out binoculars in field conditions?
Mostly I think I really need to try out some premium binoculars to see how much they are better.

In the past I bought my binoculars in Budel, the service was very good, but a town square might not be the best place to test binoculars.

If the NL pures are as amazing as I hear then I will just buy them, but sometimes it seems people have a Swarovski because they want to show off more then because they are good. So I really want to take my time and see for myself.

And then I need to decide between 8 and 10 power.

Big decision for me.

 

[Maljunulo]

I would respectfully ask that you put the business of folks buying Swarovski “just to show off” out of your head. Whether or not such people exist is irrelevant to your binocular buying problem.

Go to whichever shop you choose (or more than one) try the NL, the EL, and the SF, then buy the one you like the best without any extraneous considerations. Don’t try to save money, or wander off into whether the difference is “worth it” or not. The best are better than the rest, so all you have to do is choose the one which fits you.

They should last the rest of your life, and the more you use them the more you will be aware of how much you miss when you don’t use them.

AFTERTHOUGHTS
Remember when testing binoculars which are not yours;
If the diopter isn’t set right, focus will be “mushy” and the image will look “soft”. (Not “crisp”)
If the IPD is off, or the distance between your pupil and the exit pupil of the binocular is off, you will get “beans and blackouts” as well as restricted field of view and other annoying phenomena.

So be patient and careful when adjusting each binocular that you are trying out before beginning to compare among them.

Good luck.

(just my opinion, and it’s worth exactly how much you are paying me for it)

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Pzler post 12,
I have worked as a volunteer at Vogelbescherming and so has at least one employee of House of Outdoor. That last shop has a much larger choice of binoculars in a wide price range, has a very good service and you can take the binocualrs outside for a solid impression of its performance.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[tehri]

So I really want to take my time and see for myself.
Big decision for me.

My humble advice : stop thinking from now on !!
Try to find an optical store or showroom with a decent view, not on a crowded street, etc. A place where you can be relax, take your time, and test.
call them, make an appointment, and make sure they have what you need to test (Swaro, Zeiss...).
Even if it's not very close, it doesn't matter, on the contrary... it will take you on a little trip during which you will feel like a child going to get his wonderful toy !!

My final recommendation, but it is entirely personal : NL Pure 10x32 !!! You will have a visual orgasm while saying: ' I finally found you !!! ' 🤪

 

[Maljunulo]

My humble advice : stop thinking from now on !!
Try to find an optical store or showroom with a decent view, not on a crowded street, etc. A place where you can be relax, take your time, and test.
call them, make an appointment, and make sure they have what you need to test (Swaro, Zeiss...).
Even if it's not very close, it doesn't matter, on the contrary... it will take you on a little trip during which you will feel like a child going to get his wonderful toy !!

My final recommendation, but it is entirely personal : NL Pure 10x32 !!! You will have a visual orgasm while saying: ' I finally found you !!! ' 🤪

Very much this!

The only thing I would add is don’t buy the 10X NL (or any other) without looking carefully at the corresponding 8X.

Magnification is overrated.

 

[tehri]

The only thing I would add is don’t buy the 10X NL without looking at the 8X.

Of course, Buddy, that goes without saying ! This is a completely personal choice.

 

[Pzler]

thank you all for the feedback. I really think i just need to take the plunge. I'm just a bit nervous about spending money like that. I'm not the most impulsive person.

I need to save up just a few more months and then go to a good store and just buy whatever it is I like the most. In the meantime I will try out some different bino's when the oppertunity comes.

I run into other birders in the field and there should not be any harm in asking if i can try their binoculars if they are carrying something special.

 

[Dyrlege]

thank you all for the feedback. I really think i just need to take the plunge. I'm just a bit nervous about spending money like that. I'm not the most impulsive person.

I need to save up just a few more months and then go to a good store and just buy whatever it is I like the most. In the meantime I will try out some different bino's when the oppertunity comes.

I run into other birders in the field and there should not be any harm in asking if i can try their binoculars if they are carrying something special.

Buying good optics is like heroin. It's addictive. Be warned.
With that said, the curio is a very handy, extremely good pair (7x21 may not sound a lot, but trying them is dangerous, they stick to you)...
The Habicht is a nice one as well, porro, yes, but delivers better than most roofs.
I'm not going to mention the ATC. OOOPS! Sorry...

 

[Maljunulo]

Everyone has to make a fundamental choice …… do I want one top-notch example, that I use for everything, or do I want several (not top-notch) each for a different “purpose”?

The psychology of this is beyond my knowledge and capabilities, all I know is that I chose the former path, not the latter.