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For raptors in flight, straight or angled? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Granpoli
- Start date
dwatsonbirder
Well-known member
Hi Gpoli, once you are used to an angled scope, I think this offers more flexibility for watching raptors e.g. you do not have to change viewing angle or tripod height as birds thermal at different heights. Some people use a cable-tie sight to assist with aiming. As I understand it, straight scopes are arguably better if you regularly view from hides or a vehicle.
Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
They both have advantages and disadvantages. I strongly prefer straight scopes for several reasons, but as long as you have a good way to aim it, an angled scope can be more comfortable and versatile, and it can be easier to make stable (on shorter tripod). My strong preference for straight is based on my desire to constantly be scanning the environment for my next target. Straight scopes allow my eyes to seamlessly switch to looking at the sky (or lake, or field, in other birding situations) when I'm not looking through the scope (and, to some extent, even when I am looking through the scope,) which means I find more things to inspect with the scope than I would otherwise.
--AP
--AP
Jason Bugay Reyes
Well-known member
I uses both for raptors. Most of the time with the angled BTX 95 scope for observation. The straight scope for digiscoping on those raptors
TheBlackGrouse
Well-known member
Straight, I sold my angled scope for that... because watching raptors is my hobby as a birder.
Aiming is much easier and when used with a monopod I have the flexibility that's needed for raptors. Often you need to get record shots and switching between camera/binos and scope is fast. You hold the monopod with the straight scope in your arm against your body, while still looking in the same direction at the same height. Besides, with a monopod it's easy to move around and keep a slim profile. That comes in handy at busy viewing points.
Aiming is much easier and when used with a monopod I have the flexibility that's needed for raptors. Often you need to get record shots and switching between camera/binos and scope is fast. You hold the monopod with the straight scope in your arm against your body, while still looking in the same direction at the same height. Besides, with a monopod it's easy to move around and keep a slim profile. That comes in handy at busy viewing points.
Depending on your height it may be very difficult to find a suitable tripod or monopod for a straight scope.
When you look up your eyes are raised and when you tilt the scope the eyepiece drops.
I am 186 cm and have an old Gitzo GT2942L basalt tripod (max. specified height 184 cm, actually 182 cm), which was originally bought for use with a straight scope but proved to be inadequately stable for scope use.
The head used adds another 12 cm but with a mounted binocular I need all but 3 cm of the maximum height to view at 70° inclination.
A straight scope would require a little more because it extends further back than the binocular, so I think you would need a tripod with a maximum height very close to your own height.
Another member here, who is a keen raptor observer uses a hand-held 12x binocular. That at least has something like 5° FoV and I think would be much more comfortable viewing moving targets than at 2-2,5° FoV with a scope.
John
When you look up your eyes are raised and when you tilt the scope the eyepiece drops.
I am 186 cm and have an old Gitzo GT2942L basalt tripod (max. specified height 184 cm, actually 182 cm), which was originally bought for use with a straight scope but proved to be inadequately stable for scope use.
The head used adds another 12 cm but with a mounted binocular I need all but 3 cm of the maximum height to view at 70° inclination.
A straight scope would require a little more because it extends further back than the binocular, so I think you would need a tripod with a maximum height very close to your own height.
Another member here, who is a keen raptor observer uses a hand-held 12x binocular. That at least has something like 5° FoV and I think would be much more comfortable viewing moving targets than at 2-2,5° FoV with a scope.
John
That's OK if you are scanning in one dimension like a waterline, but I was at a disused quarry earlier this year searching for a Wallcreeper that had been observed there. No luck unfortunately but I did see an Eagle Owl.
I let another birder look through my scope and she started scanning the cliff face looking for the Wallcreeper, a hopeless exercise as the cliff face from our viewpoint was about 20° wide and 20° high, an area encompassing at least a hundred fields of view of the scope!
John
Granpoli,
I prefer a straight scope on a monopod and I use it in exactly the same way as Black Grouse. Dwatsonbirder prefers an angled scope, whereas Jason uses both. Alexis prefers a straight scope, but has pointed out that both straight and angled scopes have advantages and disadvantages, and Tringa45 has explained the problems using straight scopes at high angles on tripods. Personally I am with Tringa45's fellow member : binoculars make more sense than a scope for raptors at high viewing angles, up to the point when my neck tells me not to be so stupid !
The bottom line is that we all make our own unique mix of similar and different compromises, so one size never fits all. As you aren't fully convinced by an angled scope why not try a straight scope and see if it works better for you - or try using your binoculars instead of, or a well as, your scope.
Hermann
Well-known member
Nowadays I use angled scopes with a cable-tie sight (cf. Make your own simple sight (aiming) device for telescopes: illustrated instructions) which makes it easy to get on flying birds. I'm too tall to use straight scopes, I'm 191cm, and carrying a tripod that's tall enough ... No way. I also find using an angled scope more relaxing for my back and my neck, especially when I'm looking up in the sky for raptors or in tree tops. Letting other people have a look through my scope is also easier.
The only situation when I use a straight scope is when I'm in a car or in a hide. I find angled scopes are more difficult to use in a car. So I got myself a straight scope just for use in the car when I saw an offer for a straight EDIII I couldn't refuse.
Hermann
The only situation when I use a straight scope is when I'm in a car or in a hide. I find angled scopes are more difficult to use in a car. So I got myself a straight scope just for use in the car when I saw an offer for a straight EDIII I couldn't refuse.
Hermann
Evan Atkinson
Always finding a way to go off topic...
Fully agree with the mention of using a straight scope in a car or hide, I find myself usually rotating my scope a bit so that I can see over the flaps of the hides because it can get uncomfortable over time.
Saxatilis
Well-known member
I have been using the spottingscope extensively since 1998 for studies on the raptor migration in my region with three 12-day sessions at different periods of the year (March-May-September) and different target species.
From 1998 to 2013 I used two straight models (Opticron HD 66ED, Leica APO Televid 77), but since 2014 I have been using an Nikon Fieldscope ED 82 angled which, thanks to the brilliant cable-tie sight, has provided me with much greater visual comfort at the end of the day and at the end of the session. This fact, later combined with the use of 20x70 angled binoculars for sky and horizon scanning, has literally changed my life for the better
From 1998 to 2013 I used two straight models (Opticron HD 66ED, Leica APO Televid 77), but since 2014 I have been using an Nikon Fieldscope ED 82 angled which, thanks to the brilliant cable-tie sight, has provided me with much greater visual comfort at the end of the day and at the end of the session. This fact, later combined with the use of 20x70 angled binoculars for sky and horizon scanning, has literally changed my life for the better
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How is your 20x70 angled binocular for raptors in flight?
Thanks
Evan Atkinson
Always finding a way to go off topic...
A friend of mine has a straight 30-70x95 Swarovski and with me being 6'3 I can't see through it without crouching a little and I cannot be bothered to find a tripod that stands 185cm with all the legs extended
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Saxatilis
Well-known member
Hi, it's a Oberwerk BT 70-45, with a pair of 20mm astro eyepieces, giving a 19x mag. Very well suited to my needs. I use it since 2020. No ED glasses but quality is OK
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Jason Bugay Reyes
Well-known member
Are these IF type binocular?
Steve Babbs
Well-known member
Definitely angled. Much easier for things high up or you have to bend into strange angles yourself.
I've had both but swapped to angled in the late 80s and wouldn't dream of going back. I suspect, in the UK, 90+ percent of birders use an angled scope.
Alexis Powell
Natural history enthusiast
I take your point and agree, but you misunderstood mine, which depended on continuing to the next sentence after the one you quoted. The scanning that I referred to is done with my eyes (or eye not looking through the scope). Scanning a horizon is just as easy with angled or straight, so it is situations of sky or vast water expanses where straight scopes allow for easier switching between scoping and scanning by eye.
--AP
OK, sorry, but in the situations where I need a scope (mainly inland stretches of water and shorelines) a binocular is an indispensible intermediate stage and will often reveal a bird I would never have seen with the naked eye.
John
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