lewis20126
Well-known member
Seriously?
If my eyes were rolling any less right now they would fall out of my skull...
he's here so let him answer the question. How many new species for the collection?
cheers,a
Seriously?
If my eyes were rolling any less right now they would fall out of my skull...
2) My understanding is that feathers and blood are not the most DNA rich portions of the organism. I know when I was in grad school the phylogenetics labs tended to use the the liver, which can't exactly be extracted from a living bird. I know you can get DNA from blood and feathers, but giving the former is mostly composed of unnucleated red blood cells and the latter is mostly keratinized dead tissue, I suspect the quantity and quality of the DNA extracted is limited. We have moved beyond the state in phylogenetics where you can just publish a cytochrome B gene and everyone will take your results at face value.
Of course there are other reasons why collecting the specimen is important for those sort of analysis; if something in the preparation goes wrong, you have fall back material to go back to, people can recheck your voucher if there is concerns on identity or possible hybridization, new methods may come around in the future that today's scientists are not aware of and didn't collect for, and collection of a specimen allows statistical assessment of morphology in a way that can't be seen in photos and in hand. (See Bailey's post in the collecting thread. This of course assumes that only the skin is being collected...if other tissues or skeletal material is (hopefully) collected alongside the specimen, than there is more material for things like stable isotope analyses, reproductive studies, morphological systematics, etc)
3) Obviously field guides are made using photographs, etc, but I would hazard a bet that the top rated field guides, and the ones you use...are almost all created using specimen vouchers.
In a month the public will completely forget that Kingfisher even exists, or even that there is endangered habitat on Guadacanal. They will have moved onto the next cute animal or source of armchair outrage. In a decade though, that Kingfisher will still be available for scientific research at the AMNH.
he's here so let him answer the question. How many new species for the collection?
cheers,a
Alan
For balance, it will be useful to know how many species new to science he will also add. There will undoubtedly be some.
Paul S heads up the AMNH bird collection, so I guess he is not (that) interested in any new inverts or ferns. Point noted on the wider expedition remit though.
cheers, alan
Is there an 'ignore' function on this messageboard? I'm done w/ those such as lewis20126 who are out to simply flood the forum with their own off-topic agenda.
mostly composed of unnucleated red blood cells
Dear All
As a member of the team on the recent Guadalcanal expedition I feel obliged to say a few words in response to the recent comments on OB and elsewhere.
I’m not going to go into the general importance of collecting here, but will refer readers to some references. Regarding birds see Remsen http://bit.ly/1O5LErc and for more on the general importance of specimen collection see Rocha et al. http://biology.unm.edu/Witt/pub_files/Science-2014-Rocha-814-5.pdf.
Respectfully, Paul Sweet
First can I thank you Bailey for your comprehensive attempt to explain why you think you couldn't do your work without a collected specimen. However, I am left with a distinct impression that you are trying to justify the way YOU DO IT, rather than the way IT COULD BE DONE.
Digital photographs are virtually free, videos can be of spellbinding detail - heck we can see the spot on a cow's arse from 15,000ft! I would venture to suggest in these days of CGI someone could even make a hologram of the whole bird down to the minutest detail. A virtual specimen if you like. Now tell me it isn't so......
As an added benefit the specimen could be shared amongst academics globally electronically - surely a big plus.
Would mean you'd have to change your habits though .....hmmm
I worked most of my life in an industry where 'anything's possible' was the mantra, and 'tradition' and 'custom and practice' were dirty words and an excuse for sloppy thinking. Feels a bit like that here I must admit.
I could still be convinced 'collecting' birds in today's world is still justified, but I'm not there yet.
Mick