Gull query (2 Viewers)

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I noticed this picture on Surfbirds this evening and realised it was a bird I saw myself at Summer Leys in Northamptonshire recently. Just so I don't get into trouble, the picture was taken by Ken Earnshaw. Thanks Ken - glad someone got a picture of it. It wasn't positively IDed on Surfbirds, although I have my views. What do you good people here at BF reckon to it?

 

[pauco]

Hi Andrew.
Not the best of pics for clarity can`t really make out
colour of legs! so going to stick my neck out and go for adult Ring-Billed gull.
bert.

 

[CJW]

Gut reaction suggests Armenian Gull, Andrew. But I'm notoriously poor at LWHGs...

 

[Michael Frankis]

I'd go for Caspian, but like CJ, I'll also admit to not being very good at these Herring-type gulls

Probably 4th-winter-type with that black as well as red on the bill

Michael

 

[streatham]

I'd have to say almost definitely not a ring bill - that's all i'm seeing in CT at the moment and Herring - sorry to only come up with a negative but i'm not sure what gulls you see in the UK.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Caspian-ish with the dark eye etc.....bill looks a little bright (slightly armenicus as mentioned by Chris) but legs look good too. Somewhere from that part of the world maybe

another gull mystery

after a second look I'll stick with Michael and a Caspian

 

[Binocularface]

Caspian-ish with the dark eye etc.....bill looks a little bright (slightly armenicus as mentioned by Chris) but legs look good too. Somewhere from that part of the world maybe

another gull mystery

after a second look I'll stick with Michael and a Caspian

Yep looks fairly good for Caspian, though does look a bit bulky. The bill seems for too long for Armenian.

Course my experience of Caspian Gull is limited to just four individuals!

 

[Charles Harper]

Caspian is cachinnans, right? I'm looking at some pictures of L. c. mongolicus, and it's a pretty good match re mantle shade (hard to assess, I know), also the relatively rounded forehead, lack of spotting on the neck (but when was it taken?), shortish legs.

 

[Jane Turner]

It looks well strnage - thats a technical term. Like Charles I need to have an idea when it was taken

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Hi Jane,

It was taken on 1st January this year in Northamptonshire. I'll maybe wait for a few more responses (would be interested to hear Harry's view) before I give my views on it. A shame Spud's no longer posting.

 

[Jane Turner]

If I get time I'll have a serious look at it today. Something look wrong jizz-wise for cachinnans and I need to stop and try and explain to myself why before I do so on here.


At least it genuinely white-headed in winter plumage

Shall ask Martin Garner to take a look!

 

[Jane Turner]

Its the podgyness and lack of sleekness that looks wrong... head shape looks iffy too. Have done my best with the head and wings - there should be enough there... but if someone want to get stuck in before I have time to.. please do! It alo look very short legged and pin-headed.

Seems to be a lot of white in those wing tips.. unfortunately I don't have the details of LWHG primary patterns stored in my memory banks.... I need literature

 

[marek_walford]

I've already made one Caspian Gull screw up this week so you can probably ignore anything I say but for what it's worth...

All looks good for Caspian apart from the bill being quite brightly yellow although there doesn't appear to be much of an angle on the lower mandible.

The bird is standing in water so you can't tell the length of the legs.

However, from what you can see on the wings there is a white tip on P10 which is the only diagnostic plumage feature of Caspian Gull so that must be what it is. Probably...

 

[Brian Stone]

A couple of Jan adult cachinnans from Dick's site appear to support the Caspian theory. One feature not specifically mentioned above that stands out for me on this bird is the spindly legs - a good Caspian feature I believe.
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=976&show_thumbnails=False
http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=887&search=0&show_thumbnails=False

 

[mountain man]

Looks absolutely fine for Caspian to me as well.
I think the structure problem is arising from its body not being perfectly in profile, but its head is.
This is giving it a somewhat stubby winged look, which is obviously wrong.

 

[Jane Turner]

That's possible... I still need to have a look at the head shape though... I think I have pinned down what bothers me most... and I'm not saying it isn't one you should know...just keeping a debate going.

Its the stance... it reminds me of the way argentatus Herring gulls stand....it was in summer plumage I'd assume it was an unusually small billed argentatus and probably not look at it too hard........ if you were to imagine a line through the body of the bird its a long way off parallel. dipped down at the wing tips and up at the breast. My memories of Caspian is that they are more horizontal... see pics

 

[mountain man]

Hi Jane,
Where were your pics taken? Thats some dark mantle colour!

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Very bright yellow legs on the top right birds!

 

[mountain man]

Found this link showing a Caspian with bright yellow legs.

http://www.magikcircle.com/birds/image.asp?title_id=715&search=0&show_thumbnails=False

Its obviously not normal.
Note how big the male is.
At Dix Pit in Oxfordshire there are 2 Caspian wintering - an adult & 2nd winter.
The 2nd winter is a male and is ****ing enormous almost GBB proportions!
Whereas the female is a delicate little beauty!

 

[Jane Turner]

Hi Jane,
Where were your pics taken? Thats some dark mantle colour!

picked in a hurry from various online sources... simply to show the stance that I was tryng to describe...