Habicht for birdwatching? (1 Viewer)

[ReinierB]

Hi there,

There has been a lot of stuff being said about the Habicht. Not the bird called Habicht in German, but the very beautiful, attractive and retro Habicht 8x30, 10x40 and 7x42. I like them a lot. Last saterday I had the opportunity to look through the Habicht 8x30. What a gem! The view was beautiful. The sun was low and even when I looked into the direction of the sun, the glare didn't really bother me. It was about the same as with my NL pure 10x32. It is there, but not a deal breaker.
The view was bright (it was sunny, so I think the view through most of the binoculars appears to be bright.) The view had some 3D appareance, but not as much as I expected. I read negative things about the eyecups, but in real life I didn't have problems with them. The eyecups were soft and comfortable.

Enough said, I loved them!
One thing I really didn't like was the very stiff focuser. So here is my question: is an Habicht really enjoyable/useable for bird watching? A lot have Habicht lovers use them for landscape views or for very darker conditions (mostly 7x42). Who uses them for bird watching? Can you get along with the stiff focuser and small birds flying around? When you send the Habicht to Swarovski to loosen up the focuser, will that really be a big approvement?

So I have the following questions:

• Who likes an Habicht for birdwatching, which model and why?
• Who likes an Habicht for other purposes, which model and what purpose is it?
• Who has an Habicht with a sort of smooth focuser? Or isn't it possible because of the design? (Porro and water resistant)

Happy birding,
Reinier

 

[Ignatius]

I have used all three models for years for nature watching, including birds. None of them have what could rightly be considered a smooth focusser, BUT with the binos I have that do have one (Zeiss SFL, Steiner, Zeiss FL, ...) I also cannot follow small flitting birds accurately. Their haphazard movements just overextend my eye/brain/hand coordination, so ymmv. i am not anal enough to send our Habichts off to Absam to get on their nerves with silly special customer requests and we are happy living with them the way they are. They are rubber armoured, very ergonomic and have a fantastic image. For what we do with them, the slightly stiff focusser on the 7 and 10 x does not bother us much. The three 8xs have IF and from that point of view are not really ideal for most kinds of birdwatching anyway.
We also had a standard black leatherette Habicht, which had the closest to a smooth focusser, but that recently went in a trade-in for an 8x30 SFL, incidentally not because of focussers, but because of the easier view and better ER of the Zeiss. This is now my wife's go-to bino.

 

[[email protected]]

I have had all the Habichts and the optics are very good, they are very bright, and they have the nice porro stereoscopic image, but the focuser is way too stiff to follow fast moving birds and the eye cups are too small in diameter which causes them to sink into your eye sockets.

Because the eye cups are too short for the eye relief, I had to float them in front of my eye to avoid black-outs. I have switched over to a Zeiss SFL 8x40 and I find it much better for birding. It has a very fast, smooth focuser and comfortable eye cups that match the eye relief, and it is brighter than the Habicht 8x30 with the bigger aperture and just as light in weight.

For static birding, I use an SLC 8x56. It kills a Habicht 8x30 optically, especially with glare control, transparency, contrast and brightness in low light. I always thought the Habicht 8x30 was optical nirvana until I compared it to an SLC 8x56.

The Habichts are for an optical purist who likes porros, but I wouldn't recommend them for everyday birding.

 

[yarrellii]

Hi Reinier. I have had the 8x30 (made in 2018) and the 7x42 ( made in 2000). Here's my view.

The 8x30 just blew my mind. Really, the sharpness and brightness were simply out of this world. I remember it as one of the nicest views I've experienced. However (a big however), I did find the focus wheel was not really suited for birdwatching. Mind you, I did use them for birdwatching for several months. In my experience with my unit it was just impossibly stiff for birdwatching. Not so much for following birds in flight, but for simply changing the focus point from close to far and back again (something that happens quite often). In addition to this, I also found there was an issue with glare. It was not terrible, in fact, lesser than some other 8x30/32 I've tried. The problem for me was not the amount, but the frequency. I found that it was quite easy to get glare, not a lot, but more often than would be desirable. And, last but not least (in fact, for me a dealbreaker) I found the eyecups too narrow. This is just a personal issue I have with narrow eyecups. I tried several solutions, from using the green rubber eyecups from the armored version (mine was the leatherette version) to using winged eyecups, but to no avail. I sold it knowing that I was letting go of an incredible view. To be honest, I miss it from time to time, but then I remind myself of its many quirks. If I had more money, I'd probably buy one just for the sake of having it and using it from my balcony to scan the landscape, or to take in on walks with no particular birdwatching aspirations. I think it makes an outstanding device for that purpose. In addition to that, the "tactile" aspect of the 8x30 leather version is just sublime. They just feel right, they ooze quality (despite the terrible logo on the axis and the plain Habicht lettering on the "shoulders").

The 7x42 GA I had was a completely different animal. I don't know why, but it just didn't wow me as I expected, being a devoted fan of the 7x42 configuration. For some reason, I didn't find the spark of the 8x30, it wasn't there. I guess the 18 years of difference between my two models were responsible for the difference, but I somehow expected the increased depth of field and the bigger exit pupil to overcome the disadvantage in field of view and coatings. But it simply didn't happen. It has been one of my biggest dissappoitments in binoculars, as far as I can remember (I know some people just love them).

 

[hopster]

I have to agree with the others i.e. despite the nice bright and transparent views available I would not be able to enjoy keeping anything in focus that moved too quickly with the Habicht focuser. The Oberwerk SE focuser is easier (big rubber wheel and less stiff) but it's still nothing like as good as a decent roof.

 

[[email protected]]

I bet these lens hoods would help with the glare on a Habicht 8x30.

https://www.amazon.com/DOWN-UNDER-OUTDOORS-Binocular-Objective/dp/B07GD6MV1G?tag=namespacebran131-20&asc_campaign=2b5a785186b501c352c95398a3440b1b&asc_source=01G8XG0GEG1CT4D3C07B4FAY7P&keywords=butler%2Bcreek%2Blens%2Bcovers%2B32mm&sprefix=butler%2Bcreek%2Blens%2Bcovers%2B32mm%2Caps%2C123&th=1&psc=1

 

[[email protected]]

I have to agree with the others i.e. despite the nice bright and transparent views available I would not be able to enjoy keeping anything in focus that moved too quickly with the Habicht focuser. The Oberwerk SE focuser is easier (big rubber wheel and less stiff) but it's still nothing like as good as a decent roof.

Try following a Warbler or a Hummingbird with a Habicht!

 

[tenex]

Also try a Nikon E II, if possible side by side. Unless you need waterproofness or are obsessed with ultimate sharpness, you'll find that it offers similarly lovely qualities, while also giving a wider view and silky focusing. It actually does make a nice birding glass.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Also try a Nikon E II, if possible side by side. Unless you need waterproofness or are obsessed with ultimate sharpness, you'll find that it offers similarly lovely qualities, while also giving a wider view and silky focusing. It actually does make a nice birding glass.

One of the best birders I know just carries camo porros in his hand. I recently noticed they were Nikon E2's. I didn't even know they ever came in camo?

 

[[email protected]]

Also try a Nikon E II, if possible side by side. Unless you need waterproofness or are obsessed with ultimate sharpness, you'll find that it offers similarly lovely qualities, while also giving a wider view and silky focusing. It actually does make a nice birding glass.

The biggest difference in the EII and the Habicht 8x30 is the Habicht is brighter, but the EII has a much easier, smoother focuser and better eye cups. You know those 3 way light bulbs that are 50, 100 and 150 watt.

The EII is like the 100 watt setting and the Habicht is like the 150 watt setting. It really is an eye-opener going from an EII to a Habicht. The Habicht just feels like somebody turned up the lights and to be honest it is nice.

What is surprising about the Habicht is it is so small you don't expect it to be that bright, so it is kind of shocking. The Habicht catches every photon of light it can with that little 30 mm aperture and throws them into your eyes. When you go back to the EII it feels a little dead in comparison. It just doesn't have that high transmission sparkle the way the Habicht does.

When it comes to just the optics, the Habicht is definitely better than the EII, but a lot of people don't like to admit it because it is 2x the price. If you buy a Habicht 8x30 you will be happy with it, just don't compare it to an 8x56 like I did, or you be selling it for the 8x56. An 8x30 just can't compete with a 8x56, no way, no how.

 

[[email protected]]

One of the best birders I know just carries camo porros in his hand. I recently noticed they were Nikon E2's. I didn't even know they ever came in camo?

Never heard of that. Maybe he painted them himself. Not a bad idea, really.

 

[Patudo]

It depends very much what kind of birding you do. Following fast little birds at short distance in trees and undergrowth - no. The modern fast focusing birding binocular eg Zeiss 8x32 FL is much better for that. There is a reason why the birding binocular has evolved away from designs like the Habicht over the last 50-60 years. But observing hobbies (boomvalk) catching dragonflies over reeds and marsh, watching swifts (gierzwaluw) in the city, watching falcons at the Rijksmuseum, where the birds are at longer distance - they'll do the job OK.

I don't own a Habicht but do use similar 8x30 porros for birding sometimes. I really like them, but try to make sure that the situations I use them in do not expose their limitations.

 

[CharleyBird]

The biggest difference in the EII and the Habicht 8x30 is the Habicht is brighter, but the EII has a much easier, smoother focuser and better eye cups.

When it comes to just the optics, the Habicht is definitely better than the EII, but a lot of people don't like to admit it because it is 2x the price. If you buy a Habicht 8x30 you will be happy with it, just don't compare it to an 8x56 like I did, or you be selling it for the 8x56. An 8x30 just can't compete with a 8x56, no way, no how.

You pretty much summed up why I bought a Nikon E2 for birding (and general use) instead of the others you mentioned. Who wants a stiff focuser, who wants to carry 1350g?

 

[ReinierB]

Hi Reinier. I have had the 8x30 (made in 2018) and the 7x42 ( made in 2000). Here's my view.

The 8x30 just blew my mind. Really, the sharpness and brightness were simply out of this world. I remember it as one of the nicest views I've experienced. However (a big however), I did find the focus wheel was not really suited for birdwatching. Mind you, I did use them for birdwatching for several months. In my experience with my unit it was just impossibly stiff for birdwatching. Not so much for following birds in flight, but for simply changing the focus point from close to far and back again (something that happens quite often). In addition to this, I also found there was an issue with glare. It was not terrible, in fact, lesser than some other 8x30/32 I've tried. The problem for me was not the amount, but the frequency. I found that it was quite easy to get glare, not a lot, but more often than would be desirable. And, last but not least (in fact, for me a dealbreaker) I found the eyecups too narrow. This is just a personal issue I have with narrow eyecups. I tried several solutions, from using the green rubber eyecups from the armored version (mine was the leatherette version) to using winged eyecups, but to no avail. I sold it knowing that I was letting go of an incredible view. To be honest, I miss it from time to time, but then I remind myself of its many quirks. If I had more money, I'd probably buy one just for the sake of having it and using it from my balcony to scan the landscape, or to take in on walks with no particular birdwatching aspirations. I think it makes an outstanding device for that purpose. In addition to that, the "tactile" aspect of the 8x30 leather version is just sublime. They just feel right, they ooze quality (despite the terrible logo on the axis and the plain Habicht lettering on the "shoulders").

The 7x42 GA I had was a completely different animal. I don't know why, but it just didn't wow me as I expected, being a devoted fan of the 7x42 configuration. For some reason, I didn't find the spark of the 8x30, it wasn't there. I guess the 18 years of difference between my two models were responsible for the difference, but I somehow expected the increased depth of field and the bigger exit pupil to overcome the disadvantage in field of view and coatings. But it simply didn't happen. It has been one of my biggest dissappoitments in binoculars, as far as I can remember (I know some people just love them).

That is also what I didn't expect. I loved the view through the 8x30. The view throught the 7x42 should be nice as well, expect for the smaller AFOV. A 7x42 needs less focsing because of the larger DOF. So it makes sense buying a 7x42 instead of the 8x30 in my case.
I need to try one before I know how much I like the 7s42.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

[ReinierB]

The Nikon E2 keeps popping up, so I might consider this one as well. I do not need waterproofness.

 

[Richard D]

For birding in open countryside I find the 10x40s great to use. The only time I find the slow focusing an issue is where I'm birding somewhere where I need to make extreme changes to distance - close bushes to distant fields for example. I've never found any significant glare with the 10x40s.

 

[yarrellii]

You pretty much summed up why I bought a Nikon E2 for birding (and general use) instead of the others you mentioned. Who wants a stiff focuser, who wants to carry 1350g?

That's basically the point, I totally agree.

A "birdwatching binocular" can mean many things for many people. But I think that if we talk about "birdwatching" in general, without any further detail, we refer to "general birdwatching", which can include many kinds of birds and different habitats. Obviously, if you mostly watch flamingos at range a tripod mounted 20x50 can be your perfect "birding" binocular... because you watch flamingos at range. And if you just watch your feeder from a few feet away, then a 5x binocular can offer enough magnification without the need for hardly any focus at all, you could even go IF. So what then? Why doesn't everybody use a Nikon WX? It certainly offers impressive optical performance (price aside)... but it's certainly compromised in other areas (like weight, bulk, IF, etc.).

It has probably been dealt with endless times around here, but how do you define a general "birdwatching binocular"?

• You probably want to observe different birds in different conditions, even moving birds, so the ability to find the birds easily (large FOV) and focus swiftly and precisely (central focus with a relatively fast response) is interesting.
• You probably want to move around at some point, so size and weight can be relevant.
• Then there's things some users might find important, like eye relief or waterproofing.

So a +1200 g 8x56 can probably serve someone's purpose as a "general birdwatching binocular", even IF binoculars can be someone's "general birdwatching binocular", but there's a reason most birdwatchers don't use them as their everyday go-to tool. I have an 8x56 Zeiss FL and the view is just out of this world, but its size and weight are severe limiting factors. I've also tried doing "general birdwatching" with IF, and it was far from ideal.

The Nikon E2 keeps popping up, so I might consider this one as well. I do not need waterproofness.

I'm sure you can find several threads comparing both 8x30, the EII and the Habicht. They are two very distinct takes on a contemporary 8x30. Comparing both, and thinking about birdwatching, I'd say I prefer the EII by quite a margin. No, it's not as bright and the image is not as intoxicatingly addictive as the Habicht, but it has enough positive attributes to make up for the lesser "wow effect", namely better focus and wider FOV.

 

[hopster]

I'm sure you can find several threads comparing both 8x30, the EII and the Habicht. They are two very distinct takes on a contemporary 8x30. Comparing both, and thinking about birdwatching, I'd say I prefer the EII by quite a margin. No, it's not as bright and the image is not as intoxicatingly addictive as the Habicht, but it has enough positive attributes to make up for the lesser "wow effect", namely better focus and wider FOV.

You should probably also add in the Oberwerk 8x32 SE if you're interested in quality porros and don't mind the slower focuser. The 12x50 SE that I have is very good optically (especially for such a low price), the only reason I am thinking of replacing it is that I have now realised that I can follow birds quite easily handheld or on a homemade Finn-stick with a 12x and the focus is too slow for me with the decreased DOF of a 12x.

 

[Patudo]

Funny that. I would really like it if the focuser on my 12x50B (a Nobilem Spezial) was slower, a lot slower. The optics from the artisans at Jena are very good indeed, but the focus speed is too fast, which makes it fiddly. When a target is well over a mile away, an overfast focuser that overcorrects is a pain in the proverbial. It's compounded by the bridge assembly being not nearly as solid as its rivals from Zeiss West - if you press down on the eyecups as I am sometimes wont to do when concentrating hard, the focus can shift, requiring re-focusing. Annoying niggles in what is otherwise a very good binocular, especially for its day. But I don't suppose consumer criticism was much of a thing back in the days of the German People's Republic...

 

[William Lewis]

Hi Reinier.

I've owned both the 7x42 ga and currently the 8x30 if ga (as if I haven't mentioned it enough already!).

I also have the Nikon e2 which I now use as my main bino - the habicht is getting used a lot at the moment due to the new toy factor but eventually it will be just for kayaking and rough weather/use.

Habichts are fine for birding but the e2 with the wider field of view, better more secure hold, better sized eye cups and smoother focuser is for me a much more effective instrument providing you treat it well and keep it reasonably shielded from the rain. The mechanics are probably just as robust as a habicht - remember it has most of the mechanics of the much praised Nikon se 8x30 so it's really just the dont get it too wet or bang it on a rock factor that you need to be aware of!

Will