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Harrier in Bavaria, Germany (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter FlatEric
- Start date
alirezakiani
Well-known member
Did you have more pics, even in the same view?
It seems that she has 4 fingers.
Here are 3 more. Seems to show 4 fingers on all of them
Attachments
FormerMemberfor15years
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
Black eyes is a sign of a juvie, as are the dark secondaries. Monty's and Pallid would have plain orange or reddish breast at this age. So Hen Harrier for me.
With only three extended 'fingers' (in spring) and no notch on P7 (counting outwards), this cannot be a Hen Harrier, of course.
The pattern of the axillaries also clearly differs from that species, as does the primary pattern (plain, dark 'fingers', only a few, thin dark bars on outer primaries). It is a Montagu's Harrier, as Jinac has already suggested.
The pattern of the axillaries also clearly differs from that species, as does the primary pattern (plain, dark 'fingers', only a few, thin dark bars on outer primaries). It is a Montagu's Harrier, as Jinac has already suggested.
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FormerMemberfor15years
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
I like the "of course". We can all say that. It is a Hen Harrier, of course. Broad wings, heavy body, with a little of experience, Montagu's is excluded.
Xenospiza
Distracted
But "of course
" you do not mention any significant structural detail, such as the number of fingers: not five = not Hen.The dark secondaries point against Hen, which tends to show more barring.
The streaking is a good feature to distinguish Montagu's from Steppe in spring (in Dutch: Faveyts, 2012. Natuur.oriolus I 78(4), 113-124).
FormerMemberfor15years
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
"But "of courseBut "of course
The dark secondaries point against Hen, which tends to show more barring.
The streaking is a good feature to distinguish Montagu's from Steppe in spring (in Dutch: Faveyts, 2012. Natuur.oriolus I 78(4), 113-124).
" you do not mention any significant structural detail"Really ? It means you have no idea why Smith is saying "of course" ? LOL. I wonder what's happening to this forum. The birding level is decreasing since years, but I see now that not only the birding level is going down. Sad.
I apologise if my "of course" has offended you.
What I meant with it, is that the wing formula leaves little room for doubt in this case. Nothing else.
I don't see particularly broad wings or heavy body in the OP photos, but perhaps you were being sarcastic.
In any case, I hope you can agree that the wing formula and the plumage features of this bird all point to Montagu's.
See also the attached composite:
What I meant with it, is that the wing formula leaves little room for doubt in this case. Nothing else.
I don't see particularly broad wings or heavy body in the OP photos, but perhaps you were being sarcastic.
In any case, I hope you can agree that the wing formula and the plumage features of this bird all point to Montagu's.
See also the attached composite:
FormerMemberfor15years
Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s
Smiths, you are hidden with a nickname, I publish in my name. You are trying to give me a lesson on a subject I teach myself since decades. In this case, you misinterprete what you see. Whatever, the level of birdforum has become too poor. I'm leaving it. Too many bird are identified uncorrectly, too many members are agressive, I'm losing my time here, I close my account. Good luck all.
Sorry, but I don't quite understand this reaction.
I am not questioning your knowledge, your expertise or your name.
I have patiently explained why I think this particular bird is a Montagu's and not a Hen harrier - that is all.
If you disagree and feel that my level is poor, why not teach me, rather than throwing a tantrum?
I am not questioning your knowledge, your expertise or your name.
I have patiently explained why I think this particular bird is a Montagu's and not a Hen harrier - that is all.
If you disagree and feel that my level is poor, why not teach me, rather than throwing a tantrum?
Richard Dale
Well-known member
Valery,
A baffling and spectacular overreaction from you here. Also, it's a bit rich to criticise the standard of identification on a thread in which you have misidentified the subject bird. Smiths has clearly explained why the bird is a Monty's and shown your identification to be incorrect.
I fail to see where anyone has been aggressive. Smiths' use of "of course", which you seem to have taken exception to, seems to me simply to point out that whatever subjective criteria you may point at, the wing formula shown by the subject bird is diagnostic, and therefore it cannot be a Hen Harrier. Your reply focuses on the "of course", but ignores the rest of the post and the evidence presented to back up the identification.
No matter our level of experience, we all make mistakes - when we do, a bit of humility and acknowledgement of the error is generally the best way to go. It's certainly preferable to doubling down, making an argument that you are right just because you have lots of experience (as if no one else on here has), and ultimately throwing a tantrum...
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