HBWAlive Key; mission accomplished or mission impossible? (3 Viewers)

[redpandacat]

I got a quick response from a Chinese birdwatcher: 珊瑚鳥/珊瑚鸟 is likely a substitution of characters for the more common name 山呼鸟 "shanhuniao" meaning "mountain calling bird". It may have referred to more than one species. That said, a quick search does confirm its association with Pterorhinus chinensis today. This is a much more satisfying explanation than trying to tie it to coral.

 

[redpandacat]

I got a quick response from a Chinese birdwatcher: 珊瑚鳥/珊瑚鸟 is likely a substitution of characters for the more common name 山呼鸟 "shanhuniao" meaning "mountain calling bird". It may have referred to more than one species. That said, a quick search does confirm its association with Pterorhinus chinensis today. This is a much more satisfying explanation than trying to tie it to coral.

There's a detailed reasoning here linking 'shanhu' to Pterorhinus chinensis. There are 4 variations on the characters noted through various historical documents:
山呼 - mountain calling - self-explanatory.
珊瑚 - coral - supposedly because it was considered precious. The bird was used for singing and for fighting.
山胡 - mountain _____? - perhaps the earliest character used but I'm not clear of the original intention of the second character.
山鹕/山鵬 - (like the previous but second character also incorporates the character for bird possibly to aid understanding).

There's a 1059 poem Shanhu 山胡 by Su Shi 蘇轍/苏轼 which is probably the first reference.

There's also a painting of the bird referred to as 珊瑚鳥 coral bird (see attached image). It was commissioned by the Qianlong Emperor about 1751 and was copied from an earlier 12-volume work 鳥譜 Bird Compendium (c. 1721) by painter Jiang Tianxi 蒋廷锡. The painting were accompanied by annontations about the birds. Pretty clearly Pterorhinus chinensis in this painting.

To the question of which version of characters inspired the Shanhu/Shanbu of Gmelin 1789, well that might remain unknown. It may never have been known.

It's all quite interesting (to me)!

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Just a brief continuation ...

Simply as I've now talked with my Japanese friend Nobuhiko Osawa, about Shan-hu (alt. shanhuniao), and he confirmed that this name, according to him, does indeed have the meaning Coral (+ 鳥/niao/Bird), even if he couldn't understand why.

However, he had a (very) vague hunch of from where it might origin, that is, if the place itself, where this Bird was found, was (or could have been) called Coral (Mountains, alt. Region, etc.), in Chinese. If so this Thrush could have been: "the Shan-hu Bird", alt. "the Bird from Shan-hu/Coral", but this (as Mr Osawa both emphasized and stressed) is pure speculation.

From the short Chinese phrase in the 1785 Work it's apparently impossible (at least for him) to tell either way. It could, maybe, be a Toponym, possibly originating in a Chinese name connected to the Bird's apparent Origin/Habitat/Range, in Lingnan, China [as in: the (Calling/Singing) Bird from/in/of Coral (Mountains/Forests/Region(Area, etc.).

Or not. Who knows?

Cheers!

Björn

PS. Just to be clear, Mr Osawa wasn't able to read the Modern Chinese document (from 2006, in the first link of Post #602, from/on guoxue.com), as today's Chinese letters no longer are equal/similar to their Japanese equivalents. I assume you need to be fully fluent in today's Chinese to understand what's told in that particular paper.

/B

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Wikipedia's Lingnan Region here, and ditto Culture here. Also note, in line with the (somewhat more far-fetched) "pearlescent" idea/suggestion/connection, that there's also a Pearl River Delta, in the same area (here).

If either one truly is/was, or even could be, relevant in this case I cannot tell.

Thus, take it all for what it's worth (if anything at all), maybe worthy of some consideration ... or not.

/B

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

According to a member of my FB birding group, Heterophasia means "other voice" not "other appearance". How did you come to the conclusion that Heterophasia meant "other appearance" ?

 

[Mike Earp]

According to a member of my FB birding group, Heterophasia means "other voice" not "other appearance". How did you come to the conclusion that Heterophasia meant "other appearance" ?

"You" means James in the Key (here)?

Gr. ἑτερος heteros different; φασις phasis appearance < φαινω phainō to appear

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

"You" means James in the Key (here)?

I went to check on the Key, this is why I'm asking.

 

[James Jobling]

Given Blyth's text in the OD how did the member of your group reach the conclusion that Heterophasia meant 'other voice?"

 

[l_raty]

According to a member of my FB birding group, Heterophasia means "other voice" not "other appearance". How did you come to the conclusion that Heterophasia meant "other appearance" ?

As a word, it could be formed either from φάσις, utterance < φημί, to say, which would yield the "other voice" meaning your member is suggesting; or from φάσις, denunciation, information laid, or appearance < φαίνω, to bring to light, make appear, disclose.

The OD is silent about the bird's voice. (Blyth had almost certainly only seen skins of this bird -- see the introductive paragraph p. 160, in the paper containing the OD.)
On the other hand, Blyth described the bird as "exhibiting affinity for various distinct genera", which is presumably what the name was intended to convey.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Given Blyth's text in the OD how did the member of your group reach the conclusion that Heterophasia meant 'other voice?"

He claims to have studied Latin and Greek in high doses and also that we find the word "phasia" in Dysphasia, Aphasia, which are language disorders

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

As a word, it could be formed either from φάσις, utterance < φημί, to say, which would yield the "other voice" meaning your member is suggesting; or from φάσις, denunciation, information laid, or appearance < φαίνω, to bring to light, make appear, disclose.

An homonym, so

 

[l_raty]

An homonym, so

Yes, there are two 'φάσις' in Greek, which have different derivations and different meanings.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Yes, there are two 'φάσις' in Greek, which have different derivations and different meanings.

This explains that

 

[Taphrospilus]

(= My closest assistants, who brought invaluable services to the expedition, were two officers, ensigns — Fedor Leontyevich Eklon and Vsevolod Ivanovich Roborovskiy. The first of them, while still a cadet, accompanied me to Lob-nor; the second now went for the first time to Asia. Eklon was entrusted with the preparation of mammals, birds, etc., in a word, managing the zoological collection; Roborovskiy, on the other hand, drew and assembled the herbarium. In addition, these two named officers both helped a lot in other scientific works of the expedition.)

Born 1857, did not die before 1916 according to [here].

Sorry not a direct etymology question.

Przevalski's nuthatch - Wikipedia is written:

Przevalski's nuthatch (Sitta przewalskii), originally given the nomen nudum Sitta eckloni, is a bird species in the family Sittidae, collectively known as nuthatches.

Does this sentence make sense at all? I mean the statement of nomen nudum and originally given name.?

 

[James Jobling]

Poorly composed. Better would be, ".... originally given the name Sitta Ekloni Przhevalsky, 1883 (a nomen nudum), ...."

 

[Taphrospilus]

But can be a Nomen nudum be considered as something like a synonym?

 

[James Jobling]

Sitta Ekloni is included in the synonymy of Sitta leucopsis przewalskii by Hartert, 1920. Vog. pal. Fauna, I, p. 337.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

I (also) got intrigued by this/those eponym/s ... and even more so after having noted the following entries in today's Key:

ekloni
Lt. Fedor Leontyevich Eklon (fl. 1882) Russian Army, explorer, collector and preparator with Przhevalsky (Laurent Raty in litt.) (syn. Sitta przewalskii).

eckloni
Christian Friedrich Ecklon (1795-1868) Danish pharmacist, botanist, collector (syn. Sitta przewalskii).

Two synonyms, for the same taxon, after two different guys, seemingly years apart ... ?!?

I assume they both refer to "Sitta Ekloni" Przhevalsky, 1883, a name amended into "Eckloni in an errata sheet at the end of the book" (see Laurent's post #285). And, if so, shouldn't those entries (in the Key) instead be something like:

ekloni (See: eckloni)
alt.:
ekloni
Original spelling of specific name Sitta eckloni Przhevalsky, 1883.

Or, were those two names (alt. versions) truly aimed at two different guys ... ?

Just curious ... (even if none of them are included in neither my MS, nor in my notes).

Björn

PS. Also see; here, here or here, alt. here (incl. footnote).

And note that the same Autor/Auctor (Prschewalski/Przewalski/Przhevalsky/Prjvalsky) as well (also in 1883) named an equally invalid (Tibetan Fox): Vulpes/Canis "Eckloni", in exactly the same way (as ekloni).

Re. the Nuthatch synonym (and the nomen nudum issue), see here.

Also see the Richmond Cards for: "Sitta Ekloni" here ("1883"), and "Sitta eckloni" here ("1884").
To me it looks like Richmond simply missed the Errata sheet (in the 1883 book).

Just some observations ... (for whatever it's worth)

/B

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Mr E(c)klon (?) continuation ...

The updated Key now tell us:

eckloni (See: ekloni)

ekloni
Lt. Fedor Leontyevich Eklon (fl. 1882) Russian Army, explorer, collector and preparator with Przhevalsky (Laurent Raty in litt.) (syn. Sitta przewalskii).

But, why he is 'only' mentioned as "(fl. 1882)" is beyond my language skills. According to the Russian page/site that Laurent linked to in post #285 (alt. here) he, Федоръ ЛеонтьевичъЭклонъ [Fedor Leontyevich Eklon], seems to have been born in 1857, and "did not die before 1916" (as Laurent wrote it).

Фёдор Леонтьевич Эклон (1857 ...– не ранее 1916 ...)

Reference 11:

Всемирная иллюстрация. № 633 (т. XXV, № 9). 1881 г. С. 167.

Reference 12:

Ф.Л. Эклон – подполковник, пристав 2-го участка Пресненской части. Зацепский вал, 10. – ВсяМосква. 1916 г.

Google translate:

• World illustration. No. 633 (vol. XXV, no. 9). 1881, p. 167.
• F. L. Eklon – lieutenant colonel, bailiff of the 2nd section of the Presnensky unit. Zatsepsky Val, 10. – All Moscow. 1916

To me, with my meager (read non-existing) knowledge of Russian, it looks like he was born in 1857, and that he apparently didn't die (seemingly still alive) until at least in 1916 (according to what seems to be some sort of a Passport registration) ...

Why the hesitation, James?

However, why the Author (Auctor), amended the name "Sitta Ekloni into "Sitta Eckloni", if his name truly was Eklon is somewhat harder to understand. A Russian transcription issue I guess ...

Either way, I will leave the Ecklon/Eklon topic here (simply as he isn't "one of mine", neither he, nor this bird, are incl. in my MS), too many other eponyms to check.

Thus, take it for what it's worth.

Björn

PS. And by the way James, if amended, by the Author/Auctor himself (in 1883), shouldn't the Key entry/entries be the other way around?

As in: ekloni (See: eckloni) ... or?

Also note that there's as well a Chinese fish by the name Gymnocypris eckloni Herzenstein, 1891, and a Beetle Psilonychus eckloni Burmeister, 1855, etc., etc.

/B