Herring Gull, North Shields, UK. (1 Viewer)

[Barred Wobbler]

Sadly, I'm not the greatest gull fan. I'm not into the multitude of intricacies of ageing and allocation to subspecies in common, I suspect, with many more. To my shame, beyond telling which species they are, I tend to categorise them as 'grown up' 'just a child' and 'not grown up yet'.

I was at North Shields a couple of times this week, giving a new lens a trial run. On Tuesday I was with a friend who, unlike me, does know his gulls. He loves them. That evening, when going through his shots, he noticed a gull where the white/grey of the outer primaries extended well into the black tips, and he wondered if it might be a Scandinavian 'argentatus'. I was going back yesterday, so I decided to look out for it. In the meantime, he had posted his photos onto a gull fans' website, and someone had suggested it might be an American Herring Gull. I appreciate that Collins says than in many cases an adult American can be almost inseparable, but given the wing tip variation (and my ignorance), does this mean inseparable from argenteus, or inseparable from argentatus?

These are some of the shots I got of the same bird yesterday, when it turned up mid-afternoon for fishing boat scraps. I suspect it had followed two boats that had just come in from sea, because I'd not seen it in the few hours I'd been there until I got these pics.

Any gull experts care to comment?

 

[Strontium Dog]

I am very much not a gull expert, but can hybrid Herring x Lesser Black Backed be ruled out? Any photos with a better view of the mantle would help there I guess.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I am very much not a gull expert, but can hybrid Herring x Lesser Black Backed be ruled out? Any photos with a better view of the mantle would help there I guess.

Unfortunately, I don't have any showing the upper side, but my friend's photos from Tuesday do, and the upper side is a very pale silver-grey, a herring gull colour. I think if it had been half black-back, he'd have noticed, anyway.

 

[Butty]

I am very much not a gull expert, but can hybrid Herring x Lesser Black Backed be ruled out?

Nor me - but I'm just wondering why you would consider that at all? If it's the colour of the upperwing, consider first the photo's exposure rather than hybridization.

 

[Strontium Dog]

Nor me - but I'm just wondering why you would consider that at all? If it's the colour of the upperwing, consider first the photo's exposure rather than hybridization.

Because I've seen photos of apparent hybrids which have had some similarity to this bird? Seems we can rule it out now though, which is good.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Nor me - but I'm just wondering why you would consider that at all? If it's the colour of the upperwing, consider first the photo's exposure rather than hybridization.

That apparently dark colour is more to do with the direction of the light falling on the wing and the reflection of it, rather than wrong exposure. The sun was coming in from a very low angle behind me at the time (after 2pm, when sunset is before 5pm). Similar in a way, but for differing reasons that the underwing appears darker than its actual white. My friend's photos from the day before show the upperside to be a pale silver grey under normal conditions.

 

[lou salomon]

the bird is within variation of argenteus. Bayonets are not the kind you want to see in (Newfoundland type) smithsonianus, all white p10 tip and long tongues can be shown by argenteus. Lack of p9 mirror makes it less likely it is a nominate argentatus. But due to huge variation, usually it is not safe to ID european HG down to subspecies (apart from very obvious individuals, darker birds etc.).

 

[Barred Wobbler]

the bird is within variation of argenteus. Mayonets are not the kind you want to see in (Newfoundland type) smithsonianus, all white p10 tip and long tongues can be shown by argenteus. Lack of p9 mirror makes it less likely it is a nominate argentatus. But due to huge variation, usually it is not safe to ID european HG down to subspecies (apart from very obvious individuals, darker birds etc.).

Thanks Lou.