Hirundinidae (1 Viewer)

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Would love a copy of anyone have access!

Me too

 

[andrew147]

Would love a copy of anyone have access!

I have this paper, PM me with an email address if you want me to send.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

I guess there are a lot of split

 

[Tor Olsen]

Further support for lumping eastern subspecies of Red-rumped Swallow with Striated Swallow. Given the morphologic similarities I'm puzzled why this has not yet been addressed by the major checklists.

But how is the complex best solved? Three-way split (African Red-rumped ssp., monotypic rufula, and merge ssp. daurica/japonica with Striated), or only split African ssp. and lump remaining Red-rumped ssp. with Striated, or lump all of current Red-rumped with Striated?

 

[Snapdragyn]

Further support for lumping eastern subspecies of Red-rumped Swallow with Striated Swallow. Given the morphologic similarities I'm puzzled why this has not yet been addressed by the major checklists.

But how is the complex best solved? Three-way split (African Red-rumped ssp., monotypic rufula, and merge ssp. daurica/japonica with Striated), or only split African ssp. and lump remaining Red-rumped ssp. with Striated, or lump all of current Red-rumped with Striated?

I don't see Striated sampled here, although I may have missed it. How are we to draw any conclusions about its status from this study?

 

[Tor Olsen]

I don't see Striated sampled here, although I may have missed it. How are we to draw any conclusions about its status from this study?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

View attachment 1582199View attachment 1582201

Another proposal would be to transfer several subspecies of daurica into striolata and applying the oldest species name for this clade. We still need to know which taxon corresponds to which branch. is this feasible?

 

[johnallcock]

Another proposal would be to transfer several subspecies of daurica into striolata and applying the oldest species name for this clade. We still need to know which taxon corresponds to which branch. is this feasible?

I think the oldest species name is daurica, isn't it? This is surely one of the taxa that would be merged with striolata, probably matching the China or Russia sample in that phylogeny. So the text would be correct that the change would involve moving striolata into daurica - the question is whether the Indo-European or African subspecies currently in daurica get split out. Did they sample hyperythra and badia, which are sometimes split?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

I think the oldest species name is daurica, isn't it?

Surely

This is surely one of the taxa that would be merged with striolata, probably matching the China or Russia sample in that phylogeny. So the text would be correct that the change would involve moving striolata into daurica - the question is whether the Indo-European or African subspecies currently in daurica get split out. Did they sample hyperythra and badia, which are sometimes split?

I was also wondering what taxa represented by the branch "Africa "

 

[Kirk Roth]

Surely

I was also wondering what taxa represented by the branch "Africa "

You have to know these things when you're a king.

I would expect it to be rufula - the same as the branches labeled "Kuwait" and "Pakistan" - due to: the usefulness of the comparison of that taxon to the others, how they present the table with regard to the other branches, and the ease of sampling that population vs. the deep central forested area. If you dig deep in the article, I'm sure it tells somewhere in the small print where the sampling occurred.

But the greater point here is that its pretty sloppy to just label the branch "Africa" as if that provides as much information as the countries listed elsewhere. I'm surprised this passed through editing.

 

[James Jobling]

Del Hoyo and Collar, 2016, Illustrated Checklist of the Birds of the World, 2, Passerines, p. 452, give potential splits of Cecropis daurica as follows:
Cecropis rufula (Temminck, 1835) Western Red-rumped Swallow (monotypic)
Cecropis daurica (Laxmann, 1769) Asian Red-rumped Swallow (incl. nipalensis, erythropygia, japonica)
Cecropis striolata (Schlegel, 1844) Striated Swallow (incl. mayri, stanfordi, vernayi)
Cecropis badia Cassin, 1853 Rufous-bellied Swallow (monotypic)
Cecropis melanocrissus Rüppell, 1845 African Red-rumped Swallow (incl. domicella, kumboensis, emini)

Cecropis hyperythra (Blyth, 1849) Sri Lanka Swallow (treated as a distinct species, but included in C. daurica by Peters, 1960, Check-List of Birds of the World, IX, p. 116, and by Dickinson and Christidis, 2014, H & M Complete Checklist of the Birds of the World, 4th ed., 2, Passerines, p. 478).

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

You have to know these things when you're a king.

I didn't take the time to look.

 

[cajanuma]

You have to know these things when you're a king.

He really only claims to be a Stonechat

 

[Kirk Roth]

He really only claims to be a Stonechat

An African or European Stonechat?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Del Hoyo and Collar, 2016, Illustrated Checklist of the Birds of the World, 2, Passerines, p. 452, give potential splits of Cecropis daurica as follows:
Cecropis rufula (Temminck, 1835) Western Red-rumped Swallow (monotypic)
Cecropis daurica (Laxmann, 1769) Asian Red-rumped Swallow (incl. nipalensis, erythropygia, japonica)
Cecropis striolata (Schlegel, 1844) Striated Swallow (incl. mayri, stanfordi, vernayi)
Cecropis badia Cassin, 1853 Rufous-bellied Swallow (monotypic)
Cecropis melanocrissus Rüppell, 1845 African Red-rumped Swallow (incl. domicella, kumboensis, emini)

Cecropis hyperythra (Blyth, 1849) Sri Lanka Swallow (treated as a distinct species, but included in C. daurica by Peters, 1960, Check-List of Birds of the World, IX, p. 116, and by Dickinson and Christidis, 2014, H & M Complete Checklist of the Birds of the World, 4th ed., 2, Passerines, p. 478).

I wonder if striolata could it be split too because the tree shows two striolata branches

 

[James Jobling]

Purely on geographical grounds Cecropis striolata could be split into Cecropis striolata (Schlegel, 1844) (monotypic; Taiwan, Philippines, Sundas) and Cecropis vernayi (Kinnear, 1924) (incl. mayri and stanfordi; ne India and Myanmar/Burma to Thailand, s China and Indochina).

 

[l_raty]

If you dig deep in the article, I'm sure it tells somewhere in the small print where the sampling occurred.

The African specimen was LACM 71522 from Uganda, as per their second supplementary file.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

as per their second supplementary file.

Where can you find it?

 

[l_raty]

Where can you find it?

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1055790324001039-mmc2.xlsx

 

[johnallcock]

I wonder if striolata could it be split too because the tree shows two striolata branches

The case for this seems extremely weak to me. It would also require splitting three species of daurica in southeast and east Asia (the samples from Russia, Singapore and China), which are virtually indistinguishable from each other and from striolata in the field. The fact that striolata as currently defined is not even a unique branch within the complex just weakens the case for separating it from daurica for me, lumping it with daurica makes a lot more sense.