Jacana
Will Jones
Aggressive and TyrantsThanks! Is it because the birds themselves are genocidal tyrants?
Aggressive and TyrantsThanks! Is it because the birds themselves are genocidal tyrants?
Attila is a name which is still in common usage in parts of the Slavic World, I've actually met a couple.Attila and Hottentot are not remotely equivalent. A ancient warlord who predates pretty much most/all nation states and cultural groupings is not the same as a slang term in recent usage with negative connotations.
Aggressive and Tyrants
One would think that a person as well-travelled as you are would realize that "white" and "ethnic minority" are not mutually exclusive terms, and that people are treated differently in different countries. Not every place is the UK or USA.It's frankly always the same and it's getting tiring. Conservative people want the world to stay exactly as it were when they were younger - including all the unfair benefits they get simply for being born the right way - and any change is a terrible disaster for them. White (and some of them even British to boot!) people outraged about renaming a bird named after an offensive term for an ethnic minority seems like such an inconsequential nonsense, but in the greater scheme of things, it's just another symptom of a bigger problem. It's really the same as white people in the US fighting against affirmative action or men in Europe whining about the "preferential" treatment given to women and vigorously denying the existence of a pay gap, or straight people everywhere claiming how same-sex marriage and humane treatment of trans people destroys their family values.
No thank you, I don't subscribe to your racist ideology and hence, I don't want to "check my privilege".It really very simple: do you not want to be "attacked by the PC crowd"? Then check all your privileges and refrain from commenting negatively on matters related to people who lack those. Or, of course, don't do that, we have freedom of speech, but then I also have the freedom of speech to call you out, don't I?
Yeah, one of those actually killed people.Attila and Hottentot are not remotely equivalent. A ancient warlord who predates pretty much most/all nation states and cultural groupings is not the same as a slang term in recent usage with negative connotations.
Also, Attila is a common personal name** in HungaryAttila and Hottentot are not remotely equivalent. A ancient warlord who predates pretty much most/all nation states and cultural groupings is not the same as a slang term in recent usage with negative connotations.
Point 1: Birders adapt every year to changes in common names as a result of taxonomic lumps and splits, and eagerly anticipate those changes. Changing a few names here and there is less confusing for most birders than trying to figure out what White-eye you have seen. Under this argument, all bird taxonomy used by birders should be fixed with no further changes.Just to sum up my thoughts on politically correct bird names.
- Bird names are used internationally. Changing them destroys communication between people. Of 1.2 billion of people speaking English, all Americans are little more than a quarter.
- Nobody so far put up evidence that scientific name changes in the past were welcomed or important to a larger number of people actually addressed by supposed offenses. So far, the status is that only activists care.
- Changing names provokes more changing names like a snowball. Such feelings reinforce themselves, and no objective limit exists what is no longer offensive. And some people will always feel it is offensive. Such movements die because people feel tired, not because they feel the mission is accomplished.
- Ideologically changing the language reminds of some very evil periods of the recent history. That is why it was condemned by great people of the 20. century, including Orwell. Young activists do not understand they are playing with fire. And themselves are guilty of belittling others or open hate speech.
- Those who play with political correctness risk that soon they will be accused of being not politically correct enough.
Until today I didn't even know that Hottentot was offensive. I thought it was just the name of an ethnic group. What about Pygmy, is that still OK?
Yup.Just to sum up my thoughts on politically correct bird names.
- Nobody so far put up evidence that scientific name changes in the past were welcomed or important to a larger number of people actually addressed by supposed offenses. So far, the status is that only activists care.
Not at all. I don't have an activist bone in my body, I'm just happy to go with the flowYup.
1. The word "Oriental" is another one of those words with a far more complex history. Certainly there are some advocates for finding an alternative, though those voices are rather quiet at the moment.Even earlier to go might be oriental. Ebird has it in sixteen English bird names for now. I already read twice on online animal forums somebody surprised how it is tolerated in names like Oriental White-eye.
And already mentioned was an activist biologist who complained about words black, brown and yellow used as racial slurs and wanting also to get rid of Linnaeus.
So, yes, there are still people and words offensive to some Americans.
Interestingly, Asian birders themselves still use oriental on the, well, Oriental Bird Images. And African birders still use negrofinch and Hottentot teal on the African Bird Club.
I seem to be unable to download. I'll try another computer later. Meanwhile, there was one microscopic error in V10.2 that you may or may not have spotted already.Posted link to draft (red) 11.1 spreadsheet on Master Lists page. Comments welcome.
The link should be working, at least it does for me.I seem to be unable to download. I'll try another computer later. Meanwhile, there was one microscopic error in V10.2 that you may or may not have spotted already.
There was a space in front of "Penan" in Penan Bulbul.
I am also still a member of the Oriental Bird Club, I assume that they're monitoring this movement?Even earlier to go might be oriental. Ebird has it in sixteen English bird names for now. I already read twice on online animal forums somebody surprised how it is tolerated in names like Oriental White-eye.
Interestingly, Asian birders themselves still use oriental on the, well, Oriental Bird Images. And African birders still use negrofinch and Hottentot teal on the African Bird Club.