looking for opinions on spotting scopes (1 Viewer)

[Crusty Buzzard]

I know you have hashed this out, but there are a bunch of new ones out there. Like everyone new, I'm trying to filter out the trash reviews from the real ones. Found some real stinky ones out there. The sites I believe are most reliable have info from 3 or 4 years ago. I am becoming more disabled with some rare genetic disease taking away my muscles, so my birding is pretty much limited to a power chair or scooter. I can't hold binoculars steady enough to see anything as I am the only person I know that can thread a sewing machine while it is still running. A spotting scope on a sturdy tripod I think will be excellent for my situation. The question is which one. As an art professor and avid Landscape photographer, I would like to use a spotting scope for direct observation and teamed up with my iPhone to get some decent photographs to paint my feathered friends. I would like to use it both for distance, we live near the Riverlands Audubon Center at the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, or Bald Eagle heaven. lots of Eagles, Swans, Geese, but no lords a leaping. But I would also like to be able to point it at birds on our extensive backyard feeding operation, Bluebirds, and the like, so reasonably close subjects, maybe 15 to 20 feet? that may be a little too short a distance, but you get the idea. I don't have an unlimited budget, but I want to get something that will work very well. I would love to have a fluorite for the color sharpness, but I don't know if any other solutions are close enough. I was looking at a 65mm but was told, no, get 80mm or larger for the low light and higher magnification possibilities. I am an expert on photographic lenses, but scopes are different and so I would love your advice. I have a pair of Swarovski binoculars that I bought in 1988, they are still sharp as a tack and built to stay that way. The $3,000 and up for Swarovski scopes would be very difficult for me to convince my wife that I NEED them. I see several other brands that I am unaware of, like Kowa and Vortex but have no idea how they compare to Swarovski, Zeiss, Nikon etc. I am willing to spend around 3K if I have to, but would be happier to spend 1K if it had a reasonably comparable performance. I don't want to buy something I will be disappointed in and I don't to have to buy another one. Any thoughts or suggestions eagerly anticipated. thanks.

 

[Jinac]

I haven't got his scope but a Nikon Monarch 82 with 30-60x eyepiece seems a good challenger

 

[Montereyman]

Simpler to read reviews by people who bought and own specific scopes on websites like the BH Photo Video one.

Another thought is that after buying some image stabilized 16x42 binoculars I no longer use my scope and tripod.

 

[Hermann]

Nikon Monarch ED82 or, if you'd prefer something lighter, the ED60. The ED60 is apparently (?) out of production, but you may still find one in the shops. Eyepiece: 30-60×, that's a 24-48× on the ED60. Check Henry Link's review of the ED82 on this forum.

Hermann

 

[Tringa45]

Hi, and welcome to birdforum.
Compared to binoculars, scopes have much higher magnifications and any optical defects are more likely to be noticed. There really are no good cheap scopes and occasionally mediocre examples of the best models crop up.
On a German forum, Holger Merlitz, an author, acknowledged expert and member here, rather controversially suggested that there are only two premium manufacturers, Kowa and Swarovski. In the case of the former, this would only apply to the 55, 66, 88 and 99.
The Nikon Monarch 82 ED suggested above has an excellent reputation and should also be included but price/performance would exclude the Leica Televids and Zeiss Harpias and the Meopta S2, which used to be an excellet bargain, has recently suffered a large price increase.
As regards aperture, opinions differ widely. There are advocates of large aperture and high magnifications, but these are only usable in very stable atmosphere. Others, such as Hermann and Alexis Powell maintain that moderate apertures and magnifications of 25-30x will serve you very well most of the time and I tend to agree with them.
A Swarovski ATS 65 complete with 25-50x eyepiece, tripod and head should be within your budget and of course the Monarch 82 ED. A Kowa 66A would stretch it a bit.

John

PS:- Regarding close focus, many think of scopes as instruments for providing IDs at distance, but a scope will provide spectacular views of smaller birds at medium to close distances. My most memorable obsevation was of some Red-capped Plovers at 15 m on an Australian beach.

 

[jring]

Hi,

first of all welcome to birdforum!

Regarding which scope to buy, my advice to you would be an example that you have personally tested and agreed with the optical quality it delivers.
That can be either before buying in a brick and mortar store or used in person or from an online business with a no questions asked return policy.

Unfortunately sample variance is a reality even for alpha scopes and $$$$ alpha lemons have been observed in the wild... the only brand which seems to be less affected is interestingly the not-so alpha (for sports optics and especially scopes) Nikon with its fieldscope classic and current Monarch series - as have been recommended by others already.

Some thoughts on what kind of scope to buy and how to mount it for your use case... while I am usually not a big fan of straight scopes for reasons I have stated elsewhere times and again, I think in your case when birding while sitting, a straight scope at eye level will be optimal.

The usual reason that it's easier to share the view with an angled example does not really apply when it's mounted so low that a person sitting can comfortably look down into it and also the cable tie trick for easily aiming an angled scope is next to impossible when sitting too.

Probably best mounted upside down from a huge tripod with the column down or two normal tripods with a 90 deg extension and a horizontal bar between them with the head in the middle of the bar at breast level. Both cases allow rolling below it and use the scope while sitting.

Focusing might prove difficult in any case though - I don't think there are spotting scopes with a motorized focus drive for use with a cabled or wireless remote... in the astro world this is much more common as scopes are routinely used fully remote controlled for imaging from your sofa - which might be on the other side of the world...

Aiming the scope might also be challenging manually, so maybe get a cheap and good 80mm f7.5 astro ED doublet and a Baader zoom straight into the focus tube - with a motor focus mounted on an Celestron SLT motorized alt-az mount or similar.

Unfortunately without further optics the image will be upside down and also left and right are reversed, so as in binoculars, a set of porro or schmidt-pechan prisms would be needed, which are not so easy to get for astro gear... but since the astro scope is so cheap, one could even go custom...

Or mount a straight spotting scope to the SLT for a normal image and find s.b. to add a diy motor focus to it...

Joachim

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

I haven't got his scope but a Nikon Monarch 82 with 30-60x eyepiece seems a good challenger

You know it's kinda funny, as a landscape photographer, I lived in the Canon environment. I've always known Nikon makes excellent equipment, but because of my Canon centered universe, I think I just casually ignored the Nikons out of habit. Thinking about it now, it's kind of curious that Canon has not entered the scope market. Thanks for the suggestion, looks like a leading contender with price/performance.

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

Simpler to read reviews by people who bought and own specific scopes on websites like the BH Photo Video one.

Another thought is that after buying some image stabilized 16x42 binoculars I no longer use my scope and tripod.

Being new to the realm of birding, even though I've been heavily feeding birds for around 60 years, I have a difficult time sifting out the reality from the bull in reviews. I know that in many if not most photography review sites, a large percentage of reviews fall into the bull category. Like the nineteen year old who just happens to own high-end lenses of the same sizes in Canon, Nikon, and Zeiss flavors. Every real photographer I know sticks to one brand and may own a different brand camera body and lens for a specific purpose, but in general, no one owns a 500mm f/4 lens in 3 different brands. They love to pick up fancy sounding terms and toss them into their reviews to make it sound like they know something. I guess they want to feel important. From all I have read here so far, it seems like a much more reliable crew. I really appreciate that. As for the stabilized binoculars, my hand and arm shake is so severe that they can't compensate, as I mentioned in my original post, I'm the only one I know that can thread a sewing machine while it is running. Thanks for your help, any suggestions for other reliable sources appreciated.

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

Nikon Monarch ED82 or, if you'd prefer something lighter, the ED60. The ED60 is apparently (?) out of production, but you may still find one in the shops. Eyepiece: 30-60×, that's a 24-48× on the ED60. Check Henry Link's review of the ED82 on this forum.

Hermann

I guess the real question for me will be "how much do I really need of an ~80mm, that a ~60mm can't provide. Most of my viewing is in reasonably lighted situations, I'm not going to be sheltering in a blind along a lakeshore at 5:30am, or waiting for first light on the pond. Mostly I want to get a really good look at that Bald Eagle, way over there. or that Eastern Bluebird 20ft away. Thanks for the heads up on the review by Henry Link.

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

Hi, and welcome to birdforum.
Compared to binoculars, scopes have much higher magnifications and any optical defects are more likely to be noticed. There really are no good cheap scopes and occasionally mediocre examples of the best models crop up.
On a German forum, Holger Merlitz, an author, acknowledged expert and member here, rather controversially suggested that there are only two premium manufacturers, Kowa and Swarovski. In the case of the former, this would only apply to the 55, 66, 88 and 99.
The Nikon Monarch 82 ED suggested above has an excellent reputation and should also be included but price/performance would exclude the Leica Televids and Zeiss Harpias and the Meopta S2, which used to be an excellet bargain, has recently suffered a large price increase.
As regards aperture, opinions differ widely. There are advocates of large aperture and high magnifications, but these are only usable in very stable atmosphere. Others, such as Hermann and Alexis Powell maintain that moderate apertures and magnifications of 25-30x will serve you very well most of the time and I tend to agree with them.
A Swarovski ATS 65 complete with 25-50x eyepiece, tripod and head should be within your budget and of course the Monarch 82 ED. A Kowa 66A would stretch it a bit.

John

PS:- Regarding close focus, many think of scopes as instruments for providing IDs at distance, but a scope will provide spectacular views of smaller birds at medium to close distances. My most memorable obsevation was of some Red-capped Plovers at 15 m on an Australian beach.

I like it when people make recommendations that calm my 8 year old kid tendency to think that bigger is always better. I have a tendency to think that I always need the Lamborghini, when a Toyota will do, and often in many regards, perform much better. I'll try and find someplace within striking distance where I can actually look through the glass and see what feels best for me. Thank you for your very considerate response, you people are great.

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

Hi,

first of all welcome to birdforum!

Regarding which scope to buy, my advice to you would be an example that you have personally tested and agreed with the optical quality it delivers.
That can be either before buying in a brick and mortar store or used in person or from an online business with a no questions asked return policy.

Unfortunately sample variance is a reality even for alpha scopes and $$$$ alpha lemons have been observed in the wild... the only brand which seems to be less affected is interestingly the not-so alpha (for sports optics and especially scopes) Nikon with its fieldscope classic and current Monarch series - as have been recommended by others already.

Some thoughts on what kind of scope to buy and how to mount it for your use case... while I am usually not a big fan of straight scopes for reasons I have stated elsewhere times and again, I think in your case when birding while sitting, a straight scope at eye level will be optimal.

The usual reason that it's easier to share the view with an angled example does not really apply when it's mounted so low that a person sitting can comfortably look down into it and also the cable tie trick for easily aiming an angled scope is next to impossible when sitting too.

Probably best mounted upside down from a huge tripod with the column down or two normal tripods with a 90 deg extension and a horizontal bar between them with the head in the middle of the bar at breast level. Both cases allow rolling below it and use the scope while sitting.

Focusing might prove difficult in any case though - I don't think there are spotting scopes with a motorized focus drive for use with a cabled or wireless remote... in the astro world this is much more common as scopes are routinely used fully remote controlled for imaging from your sofa - which might be on the other side of the world...

Aiming the scope might also be challenging manually, so maybe get a cheap and good 80mm f7.5 astro ED doublet and a Baader zoom straight into the focus tube - with a motor focus mounted on an Celestron SLT motorized alt-az mount or similar.

Unfortunately without further optics the image will be upside down and also left and right are reversed, so as in binoculars, a set of porro or schmidt-pechan prisms would be needed, which are not so easy to get for astro gear... but since the astro scope is so cheap, one could even go custom...

Or mount a straight spotting scope to the SLT for a normal image and find s.b. to add a diy motor focus to it...

Joachim

I had every intention of getting an angled scope, but you have a great point. I am thinking of creating a mounting system to use on my scooter and although the straight scope idea sounds great when seated, and not as likely to be "sharing the view", I may still go for the angled scope so that it could be positioned lower and a little further forward so I would just lean over to view, otherwise it would have to be mounted eye high and be always right in my face. The lower mounted position would allow me to still maneuver around. I'm new to this world, so I'm unfamiliar with the cable tie trick, or any tricks for that matter. Thanks again for your truly thoughtful response.

 

[jring]

Hi,

I had thought about a mount on the scooter but had doubts if that will be stable enough for higher magnifications... at my usual setting of 54x even using the focus drive can make the image shake visibly on a normal tripod.
Not sure if a vehicle with rubber tires and maybe even a suspension will make a stable enough base...

But by all means try it, if it works for you, it will be brilliant!

The cable tie trick is used for making aiming an angled scope as easy or even easier than a straight one.
It involves having a cable tie around the front end of the scope with the strap pointing straight up. You then aim at some fixed target and adjust and then cut the strap so it ends on the target when peering over the upper edge of the eyecup in the direction of the target (at your usual eyecup setting when twist up adjustable).
When this is done, you can just aim like described before at another target and you will usually be right on target or very close by.

But of course you need to be able to bring your eye right behind the top of the eyepiece and look horizontally in the direction of the target.

Joachim

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

Hi,

I had thought about a mount on the scooter but had doubts if that will be stable enough for higher magnifications... at my usual setting of 54x even using the focus drive can make the image shake visibly on a normal tripod.
Not sure if a vehicle with rubber tires and maybe even a suspension will make a stable enough base...

But by all means try it, if it works for you, it will be brilliant!

The cable tie trick is used for making aiming an angled scope as easy or even easier than a straight one.
It involves having a cable tie around the front end of the scope with the strap pointing straight up. You then aim at some fixed target and adjust and then cut the strap so it ends on the target when peering over the upper edge of the eyecup in the direction of the target (at your usual eyecup setting when twist up adjustable).
When this is done, you can just aim like described before at another target and you will usually be right on target or very close by.

But of course you need to be able to bring your eye right behind the top of the eyepiece and look horizontally in the direction of the target.

Joachim

Sounds like an easy trick. I made a simple rifle type sight, for one of my telescopes. It has a little sphere up front, and a ring at the back of the scope, lines up just like a rifle. Made it with my 3D printer, just starting to imagine all the handy things I can make with that. Thanks for the explanation of the cable tie trick. Had not really thought about the scooters stability, but it seems pretty darn rigid,

 

[Crusty Buzzard]

I guess the real question for me will be "how much do I really need of an ~80mm, that a ~60mm can't provide. Most of my viewing is in reasonably lighted situations, I'm not going to be sheltering in a blind along a lakeshore at 5:30am, or waiting for first light on the pond. Mostly I want to get a really good look at that Bald Eagle, way over there. or that Eastern Bluebird 20ft away. Thanks for the heads up on the review by Henry Link.

I've been searching for that review of the ED82 by Henry Link, but I find several places where he has commented, but not a review. Do you know where I can find it. I'm probably just not searching correctly.

 

[jring]

I've been searching for that review of the ED82 by Henry Link, but I find several places where he has commented, but not a review. Do you know where I can find it. I'm probably just not searching correctly.

Monarch 82ED, a Perfect Ten

I recently spent a pleasant few hours evaluating a scope that exceeded my expectations in nearly every way. The Nikon Monarch 82ED has been around for over 2 years now, but it doesn’t seem to have made much of an impression in the market or been much reviewed or discussed in optics forums. A...

www.birdforum.net

 

[Hermann]

The cable tie trick is used for making aiming an angled scope as easy or even easier than a straight one.
It involves having a cable tie around the front end of the scope with the strap pointing straight up. You then aim at some fixed target and adjust and then cut the strap so it ends on the target when peering over the upper edge of the eyecup in the direction of the target (at your usual eyecup setting when twist up adjustable).
When this is done, you can just aim like described before at another target and you will usually be right on target or very close by.

Make your own simple sight (aiming) device for telescopes: illustrated instructions

Here are instructions and illustrations for making an effective, simple, quick and cheap aiming device suitable for any angled-view telescope. The instructions consist of an article which I originally wrote for Alula and which were later also published in Birding, and a series of illustrations...

www.birdforum.net

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

In case you're interested in the Nikon Monarch ED60, there's one very good review on the forum: Nikon Monarch Fieldscope 60ED-A + MEP 30-60W Review

I will comment on a few other aspects later tonight. Should have more time then ...

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

A few more thoughts:

1. If you can't hold a binocular steady enough, you should get some kind of binocular support. After all, you want to get some support for a scope anyway. There are many different models available, many of them quite expensive, especially those made bei Leica, Swarovski and Zeiss. I personally prefer the universal support platform made by Berlebach: Binoculars Support from Berlebach ® Tripods. Works very well for many different kinds of binoculars.
2. I think creating a mounting system for your scooter may work well. I once met a young birder in a motorized wheelchair who used such a homemade system. Can't remember the technical details, it's too long ago, almost 40 years actually. However, you may not be able to use very high magnifications because it's probably difficult to create a system as vibration free as a good tripod. But I think you should be able to use magnifications up to ~30x no problem. If you do create your own mounting system, don't forget to use standard tripod screws so you can attach a decent video head. You'll need one.
3. I think you're right to prefer an angled scope for the reasons you mentioned in post #11. I think it gives you more flexiblity, especially if you use a mounting system on your scooter.
4. On the question of sizes: There can be no doubt that bigger is better when it comes to scopes if the scopes are of similar quality. The price you pay for a big scope is that it's, well, big, and unwieldy. I've got scopes in three different sizes (50mm, 60mm and 82mm) nowadays, and I rarely use the big 82mm because of its size and in my case its weight. I find an optically very good 60-65mm scope works well in my preferred magnification range (20-40x). Over 40x it becomes more difficult, because of the small exit pupil. But I use it at 60x if I really need to.
5. Eye relief is another important aspect. You didn't mention whether you need to wear eyeglasses or not. However, if you want to mount the scope a little forward and lean over to view, I think you'll want to use an eyepiece with as much eye relief as possible in the magnification range you'll use the most.

Hermann

 

[Hermann]

Simpler to read reviews by people who bought and own specific scopes on websites like the BH Photo Video one.

Yes but ... "On the internet nobody knows you're a dog." I prefer reviews by people I know, people I know to be reliable. There are quite a few here on this forum, just as there are some people I wouldn't trust one inch. But those are mainly on the Binoculars Forum ...

Another thought is that after buying some image stabilized 16x42 binoculars I no longer use my scope and tripod.

Yes, that's what works for you. But did you actually read what the OP wrote in his initial post?

Hermann

 

[dwatsonbirder]

I wonder if a hide clamp (perhaps modified and with a decent fluid head) may be a good solution to your mounting conundrum?