martin i.d. needed in brooklyn n.y. (1 Viewer)

[glide133]

this martin species is currently up for identification.the bird showed up in prospect park on 4/1/21.i took these photos today,4/2/21

 

[Butty]

Purple martin - I guess 1st-year female.

 

[birdmeister]

this martin species is currently up for identification.the bird showed up in prospect park on 4/1/21.i took these photos today,4/2/21

I'm sure you mean this bird, with more photos below:

https://ebird.org/atlasny/checklist/S84571274

https://ebird.org/atlasny/checklist/S84575730

I find it intriguing that many people who have gone to see this have said it appeared similar in size to adjacent Tree Swallows (Purple Martin is really large!). However, I'm not qualified at all on what its actual identity is. I'm inclined to think not Purple Martin, but anything else would be mega-rare.

 

[THE_FERN]

I'm sure you mean this bird, with more photos below:

https://ebird.org/atlasny/checklist/S84571274

https://ebird.org/atlasny/checklist/S84575730

I find it intriguing that many people who have gone to see this have said it appeared similar in size to adjacent Tree Swallows (Purple Martin is really large!). However, I'm not qualified at all on what its actual identity is. I'm inclined to think not Purple Martin, but anything else would be mega-rare.

I have no clear idea what this is but it seems odd for a grey-breasted, especially the pale collar and to a lesser extent the shape of it.

 

[KC Foggin]

I just googled "images for immature female Purple Martin" and quite a few like yours came up.

 

[glide133]

the bird size wise is larger than a tree swallow and smaller than a purple martin.the bird has since been labeled as a gray-breasted martin.finder of the progne sp is doug gochfeld.i'm sure it will eventually be confirmed,or not one way or the other.thanks for the responses

 

[glide133]

I have no clear idea what this is but it seems odd for a grey-breasted, especially the pale collar and to a lesser extent the shape of it.

a bit larger than the tree swallows it was with,martin shaped bill.

 

[NY_Birder]

I'm sure you mean this bird, with more photos below:

https://ebird.org/atlasny/checklist/S84571274

https://ebird.org/atlasny/checklist/S84575730

I find it intriguing that many people who have gone to see this have said it appeared similar in size to adjacent Tree Swallows (Purple Martin is really large!). However, I'm not qualified at all on what its actual identity is. I'm inclined to think not Purple Martin, but anything else would be mega-rare.

Here's my terrible picture of the mystery martin next to two barn swallows and two tree swallows (for size comparison). I was lucky enough to be standing right next to the tree when they all decided to perch.

 

[Butty]

many people who have gone to see this have said it appeared similar in size to adjacent Tree Swallows (Purple Martin is really large!).

Clearly those people were wrong.

the bird size wise is larger than a tree swallow and smaller than a purple martin

From this photo I wouldn't say that it's not smaller than a purple martin, but I would be looking for much better evidence for that than can be had from a photo such as this.

So, apart from people's guesses about its size relative purple martin (which I guess it has not been seen alongside?), what reasons are there that it's not a purple martin? It clearly has a neck-pattern that's right for purple martin and (apparently) wrong for grey-breasted martin.

 

[Microtus]

The Gray-breasted Martin has been seen alongside Tree Swallows and has been described by observers as only a little larger than that species, which means that it is too small to be a Purple Martin.

 

[Butty]

That's my point. You can see from the photo above that the problem bird is, in fact, (what I would describe as) substantially larger (not 'only a little larger') than a tree swallow.
Here's a photo of tree swallow and purple martin together (I hope it works - it's one of those awful Google/Pinterest links) >>

Redirect Notice

I would say that, in this photo, the difference between the two is indistinguishable from the difference between tree swallow and the problem bird in the photo given by NY_birder above - which leaves us still short of adequate reasons for an ID of grey-breasted martin.

 

[Microtus]

From eBird county rare bird alert and the New York state birding list. Three different observers:

"Seen well in the company of Tree Swallows and a Barn Swallow, allowing for direct comparison of size. Slightly larger than Tree Swallows with a shallow fork in the tail, which both point towards Gray-breasted Martin ("snowy-bellied" would be closer to Purple Martin in size with a deeper fork)."

"After several minutes it perched in a tree on the lake bank for the balance of the time I spent there, vocalizing the entire time. Martin was slightly larger in size than a Tree Swallow with dark black/blue hood and back."

"I saw this martin as a smaller and much more "normal" swallow than Purple Martin in terms of shape and flight action. For instance, it wasn't strikingly different from Tree Swallows, unlike the inevitable impressions given by PUMA over time, which reveal grotesque looks, owing to the overall size, long neck, large bill, etc. This bird never gave a starling-like impression. The plumage also deviates from my experience with PUMA, especially the all white undertail coverts and neat division between snowy belly and gray-brown upper breast."

 

[Butty]

From eBird . . . [etc.]

Thanks - interesting to see. The 3rd observation contains some useful things about structure, etc., but nothing it says about plumage seems out of order for how a 1st-year female purple martin might look, based on plumage depictions is Sibley.
And nothing in any of these 3 sets of notes negates anything I've said above about size. The bird is clearly, from NY_birder's photo, every bit as different in size from a tree swallow as purple martin is. Seeing more photos of the bird next to a tree swallow, and more photos of purple martins next to tree swallows, would obviously help.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I'm sure you mean this bird, with more photos below:

The Gray-breasted Martin has been seen alongside Tree Swallows and has been described by observers as only a little larger than that species, which means that it is too small to be a Purple Martin.

I wouldn’t like to pass comment on size comparisons taken through telephoto lens and certainly not want to contradict observers in the field when I wasn’t there myself - however, the links Birdmeister posted and the all the ones above show a dark forehead which is an identifying feature of Gray-breasted Martin. PUMA have pale foreheads which contrast with very dark lores and ‘mask’ - I can’t see that in the Prospect Park bird.

Grey-breasted (f/imm) can show a semblance of pale neck collar

ML319535391 - Gray-breasted Martin - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML319535391; © Pablo Ramos; San Vicente, Buenos Aires, Argentina

macaulaylibrary.org

But the Prospect Park bird only shows a hint of one in certain light - in all images though, there is no evidence of a light forehead contrasting with the crown and a dark loral/orbital area, it looks all dark to me.

ML321988141 - Gray-breasted Martin - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML321988141; © Doug Gochfeld; Kings, New York, United States

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[Butty]

At last some actual features

 

[Butty]

I wouldn’t like to pass comment on size comparisons taken through telephoto lens and certainly not want to contradict observers in the field when I wasn’t there myself

This is a clear implication that I 'contradict[ed] observers in the field when I wasn’t there myself'. Other than people who (we were told, and, if they were quoted correctly, were clearly wrong) said 'it appeared similar in size to adjacent Tree Swallows', I didn't contradict anyone - so please don't say that.

 

[NY_Birder]

Thanks - interesting to see. The 3rd observation contains some useful things about structure, etc., but nothing it says about plumage seems out of order for how a 1st-year female purple martin might look, based on plumage depictions is Sibley.
And nothing in any of these 3 sets of notes negates anything I've said above about size. The bird is clearly, from NY_birder's photo, every bit as different in size from a tree swallow as purple martin is. Seeing more photos of the bird next to a tree swallow, and more photos of purple martins next to tree swallows, would obviously help.

Here's a link to all of the pictures of the mystery martin uploaded to eBird: https://ebird.org/media/catalog?tax...eSs5FsJ6B6bh6L38STqeeuHS2MOCsj_Ceq2yOH18NSiDM

Below is a screenshot of an e-mail from Joe Siegrist of the Purple Martin Conservation Association. He, along with others, think it is GBMA. These pictures combined with Tim's analysis of the recorded vocalizations seem to point heavily to GMBA. This screenshot was taken from the ABA RBA Facebook page (which has more on Tim's analysis, if you are interested): https://www.facebook.com/groups/ABArare/permalink/4071552139572065/

 

[Butty]

Here's a link to . . . [etc.]

Excellent. Thanks for your illuminating and instructive extra info.

 

[NY_Birder]

Excellent. Thanks for your illuminating and instructive extra info.

No worries! It's a real head-scratcher.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

This is a clear implication that I 'contradict[ed] observers in the field when I wasn’t there myself'.

It’s a ‘clear‘ nothing. Not everything is about you. Read my comment again:

“I wouldn’t like to pass comment on size comparisons taken through telephoto lens and certainly not want to contradict observers in the field when I wasn’t there myself”

FWIW, it did look quite large to me but as I said, I didn’t want to pass judgment on that as I wasn’t in the field - Also, I trust there are Americans probably better at judging the comparative size of PUMAs and Tree Swallows etc than I. Since there was a significant number of observers who had better views and assessment of size than I think it possible from a photo, I saw no grounds for saying they were incorrect in their assessment.

My one and only post to this thread thus far, was solely and wholly concerned with why I thought this was not a PUMA but one of the Gray-breasted Martins and referenced some clear identifying criteria to this end.

I hope that makes you feel less ‘implicated’ in whatever it was you felt implicated in.👍