Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
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Meliphagidae (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Richard Klim
- Start date
l_raty
laurent raty
'LBJ' = Little Brown Jobs.
Yes, nice work.
Just a detail : the type species was described in the PZS volume for year 1873, but in the third (and last) part of this volume, which covered the meetings of late 1873 and appeared in 1874 -- thus it should be "Sclater, 1874", not "Sclater, 1873". But I'm nitpicking.
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
Ok. The same as "un piaf"
l_raty
laurent raty
Un petit piaf brunâtre.
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
I remain convinced that Sugomel lombokium deserves its own genus. For those who have already observed Sugomel nigrum and lombokium, confirm that both species are very different on many points.
mb1848
Well-known member
Laurent please keep picking nits. Zoonomen says: "
Peters Checklist 12:402 (Finn Salomensen) lists this as 1873. The Richmond Index shows that it was published in Apr. 1874."
Zoonomen also puts lombokia in the genus it was named in Lichmera and only has niger in Sugomel.
Also see https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339692348_Sunda_Honeyeater_Lichmera_lombokia .
LeCroy 2011 Type Specimens of Birds in the American Museum of Natural History Part 9. Passeriformes: Zosteropidae and Meliphagidae. says the species name should be S. niger.
Gould Myzomela nigra in 1837-38 suppressed Birds of Australia but this plate 8 made it into the unsuppressed Birds of Australia 1840 to 1848. The birds of Australia : and the adjacent islands .
Peters Checklist 12:402 (Finn Salomensen) lists this as 1873. The Richmond Index shows that it was published in Apr. 1874."
Zoonomen also puts lombokia in the genus it was named in Lichmera and only has niger in Sugomel.
Also see https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339692348_Sunda_Honeyeater_Lichmera_lombokia .
LeCroy 2011 Type Specimens of Birds in the American Museum of Natural History Part 9. Passeriformes: Zosteropidae and Meliphagidae. says the species name should be S. niger.
Gould Myzomela nigra in 1837-38 suppressed Birds of Australia but this plate 8 made it into the unsuppressed Birds of Australia 1840 to 1848. The birds of Australia : and the adjacent islands .
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MJB
Well-known member
Mais oui! Je ne regrette rien... Pourquoi? Parce qu to crois...?
Edith et Charles...
MJB
Snapdragyn
Well-known member
A frustrating (for me) point about Hay et al. (2022) is the lack of a chronogram. The supplementary info even has a couple of graphs which say 'node labels show the estimated age'... but then have the nodes labeled with things like '0.7172'. That is not an age. That is not MYA - unless they're claiming the entire honeyeater lineage first began to diverge less than 1 million years ago, as the largest number I see is '0.982'; this seems rather obviously not what is intended to be implied here.
mb1848
Well-known member
Wolters 1979 seems to treat
- Myzomela simplex Gray,GR 1861 Proc.Zool.Soc.London["1860"] Pt(28)3 p.349 O.D. (Zoonomen) as a subspecies of
- Pycnopygius ixoides (Salvadori) 1878 Ann.Mus.Civ.Stor.Nat.Genova 12 p.338 O.D. . Perhaps Wolters would have thought these two species (cinereus/ixoides should go back into Myzomela?
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The subspecies simplex that Wolters includes in Pycnopygius ixoides (page 258) surely cannot be the same as the subspecies simplex he includes in Myzomela obscura (page 262). I think it's simplex (A Reichenow 1915) not simplex (G R Gray 1861).
mb1848
Well-known member
Thank you. Two different birds, Ptilotis simplex v. Myzomela simplex.
Jahrg.63 (1915) - Journal für Ornithologie - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
pt.28 (1860) - Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London - Biodiversity Heritage Library . Pycnopygius ixoides is called the Plain Honeyeater and according to The Key to Scientific Names: simplex means simple, plain. Salvadori named it Ptilotis? ixoides.
Jahrg.63 (1915) - Journal für Ornithologie - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
pt.28 (1860) - Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London - Biodiversity Heritage Library . Pycnopygius ixoides is called the Plain Honeyeater and according to The Key to Scientific Names: simplex means simple, plain. Salvadori named it Ptilotis? ixoides.
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albertonykus
Well-known member
Joseph, L. (2023)
Towards a resolution of nomenclatural instability in the Helmeted Friarbird Philemon buceroides complex
Bulletin of the British Ornithologists’ Club 143: 318–324
doi: 10.25226/bboc.v143i3.2023.a7
A trend to treat Queensland populations of Helmeted Friarbird Philemon buceroides (Swainson, 1838) sensu lato of Indonesia, Australia and Papua New Guinea as Hornbill Friarbird P. yorki Mathews, 1912, while consistent with >100 years of scientific name usage before 1975, and not without merit, has been poorly defended. Given the region's biogeography, rigorous assessment is needed of which of several taxa described from New Guinea and often treated as subspecies of P. novaeguineae (S. Müller, 1843) might be most closely related to yorki. This will be critical in establishing nomenclatural priority. Introduction of ‘Hornbill Friarbird’ evidently overlooks ‘Helmeted Friarbird’ having been associated almost exclusively with Queensland populations for >100 years. Clarifying relationships within and among Australian populations to each other and to those in Indonesia and Papua New Guinea will be a key starting point in eliminating legitimate, lingering dissatisfaction with the broader group’s taxonomy and nomenclature.
Towards a resolution of nomenclatural instability in the Helmeted Friarbird Philemon buceroides complex
Bulletin of the British Ornithologists’ Club 143: 318–324
doi: 10.25226/bboc.v143i3.2023.a7
A trend to treat Queensland populations of Helmeted Friarbird Philemon buceroides (Swainson, 1838) sensu lato of Indonesia, Australia and Papua New Guinea as Hornbill Friarbird P. yorki Mathews, 1912, while consistent with >100 years of scientific name usage before 1975, and not without merit, has been poorly defended. Given the region's biogeography, rigorous assessment is needed of which of several taxa described from New Guinea and often treated as subspecies of P. novaeguineae (S. Müller, 1843) might be most closely related to yorki. This will be critical in establishing nomenclatural priority. Introduction of ‘Hornbill Friarbird’ evidently overlooks ‘Helmeted Friarbird’ having been associated almost exclusively with Queensland populations for >100 years. Clarifying relationships within and among Australian populations to each other and to those in Indonesia and Papua New Guinea will be a key starting point in eliminating legitimate, lingering dissatisfaction with the broader group’s taxonomy and nomenclature.
mb1848
Well-known member
"Note that the epithet novaeguineae (S. Müller, 1843) has priority over yorki"
Not that it matters for priority but I agree with Zoonomen in dating it as 1842.
"Phelimon buceroides novaeguineae Citation
Not that it matters for priority but I agree with Zoonomen in dating it as 1842.
"Phelimon buceroides novaeguineae Citation
- Peters Checklist 12:408 (Salomonsen, 1967) dates this taxon to 1843. This is followed by H&M 3rd:436.
- My collation of the pages from this work indicate that it must be in pt5, which was published March 30, 1842.
- Dekker and Quaisser (2006) in "Type specimens of birds in the National Museum of Natural History, Leiden. Pt.3 Passerines: Pachycephalidae - Corvidae" p.33 correctly note Salomonsen's error, and also agree that this name was published 30 March 1842. ."
- Written notes possibly by Ernst Mayr disagrees.
- [v.1] Land-en Volkenkunde - Verhandelingen over de natuurlijke geschiedenis der Nederlandsche overzeesche bezittingen - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
- OD??? Verhandelingen over de natuurlijke geschiedenis der Nederlandsche Overzeesche Bezittingen | Digital Collections . Pages 207-208?
- Or part 5 page 153note 1842 "Trop novae-guineae" [v.1] Land-en Volkenkunde - Verhandelingen over de natuurlijke geschiedenis der Nederlandsche overzeesche bezittingen - Biodiversity Heritage Library .
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Xenospiza
Distracted
It's part 5, page 153.
Page 207-208 is a description of various cuckooshrikes, where they mention that they've only seen "novaeguineae" on Sumatra, so it would better be called "sumatrensis".
Xenospiza
Distracted
"Closely related to this bird from Timor is another species of this genus, only observed by us along the southwestern coast of New Guinea, which also often has been confused with the true Trop. corniculatus from New Holland.
Here we want to describe it more closely in short, under the name of Trop. novae-guineae. In this species the knob above the bill is markably shorter than in the species mentioned above, most closely having the shape as in Trop. argenticeps. Like in this last bird and Trop. timoriensis, Trop. novae-guineae also has the crown and nape covered in feathers and only the sides of the head are bald. Head, back, wings and tail are similarly brown; the belly is turning greyish; chin and throat grey-brown with white edges to the moderately broad feathers; the shafts of those [feathers] on the throat are also here free of barbs, 1-2 lines [mm, or 1/12 inch?] long and in the neck the feathers are turned up as in a collar. Length of the bill, from the gape to the tip, 0.036; length of the wings, from the carpus, 0.141, of the tail, 0.119."
Here we want to describe it more closely in short, under the name of Trop. novae-guineae. In this species the knob above the bill is markably shorter than in the species mentioned above, most closely having the shape as in Trop. argenticeps. Like in this last bird and Trop. timoriensis, Trop. novae-guineae also has the crown and nape covered in feathers and only the sides of the head are bald. Head, back, wings and tail are similarly brown; the belly is turning greyish; chin and throat grey-brown with white edges to the moderately broad feathers; the shafts of those [feathers] on the throat are also here free of barbs, 1-2 lines [mm, or 1/12 inch?] long and in the neck the feathers are turned up as in a collar. Length of the bill, from the gape to the tip, 0.036; length of the wings, from the carpus, 0.141, of the tail, 0.119."
mb1848
Well-known member
Thank you Xenospiza for translating. I obviously had no ides what I was reading. I blame the author's use of Trop. But in the alphabetical register of creatures at te end of the book it lists the full name . Tropidorhynchus novae-guineae. [v.1] Land-en Volkenkunde - Verhandelingen over de natuurlijke geschiedenis der Nederlandsche overzeesche bezittingen - Biodiversity Heritage Library . I am convinced the publication date is 1842. Three sources list the authors as Muller and Schlegel and one lists Temminck as editor.
l_raty
laurent raty
One could blame the language, too, I guess -- not exactly modern Dutch 😉.
l_raty
laurent raty
In the description of Trop. timoriensis, he writes "Ned. lijnen", which I think would be equivalent to mm...? (I.e., presumably the same as Nederlandse strepen in the Nederlands metriek stelsel, see here.)
The other measurements (bill, wing, tail) seem to be consistent with metres (Ned. ellen in the Nederlands metriek stelsel).
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Xenospiza
Distracted
The author seems to be Salomon Müller (page 129). According to the Leiden University Library, the editor is J.A. Susanna; they list a whole range of authors.
The Dutch used is just very old-fashioned (in spelling and wording); I assume it was translated as it does not come across as particularly "German".
