Sorry they were disappointing, but thanks for the user report.
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Monarch M7 (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter dries1
- Start date
PCH BIRDER
Well-known member
Thanks very much for the report. Probably will hold true for the 8x30 as well.
Peregrine Took
Well-known member
^^^ I'm going to backtrack a little on my dismissal of the M7's - I might have been a bit hasty!
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Today I tried several more pairs of binoculars and was a bit overwhelmed. All of them were ED glass, ranging from £350.00 to £900.00. I took my Olympus EXPS's with me. All of the binoculars I tried were noticeably brighter and as sharp or sharper than my Olympus, but only two or three had better control over CAs - the most expensive ones.
More than anything, when I tried the M7's yesterday, I had an expectation that they would/should be vastly better in respect of CA's than my Olympus bins (although my other priority is that I want waterproof binoculars). It was therefore the fact that the M7s were only slightly better than the EXPS's at controlling CAs (the first thing I looked for) that made me dismiss them. I confess that I might then have simply decided that the M7's were not worth the upgrade and all my other TOO BRIEF observations might have been biased towards my old bins (a kind of perverse confirmation bias!). I should have tried a lot more binoculars, which I did today, before coming to any such judgement.
Having found that only the two most expensive pairs of binoculars that I demo'd today were better for CAs than the EXPS, I concluded that the EXPS's are somewhat exceptional in that respect. The dealer agreed with me.
What I didn't demo - nor did I think about it when I was surrounded with so many options - was to give the Nikon M7's another try (mainly because they didn't have the 8x42). My original perception when I tried the M7s yesterday was that they should outperform my EXPS's, but now I'm thinking that if their CA control is as good as the EXPS's, if not slightly better, then that's a good result. I decided (with hindsight, when I got home this evening) that I should look at the M7's again - with a different mindset - and compare them to the other options.
The bins I looked at today were: Hawke ED X, Hawke APO, Kowa BD II XD, Zeiss Terra, Zeiss Conquest, Opticron DBA VHD+. I was surprised at what little difference there was between some of these optically, so I came down in favour of ergonomics, which is very subjective. The Zeiss Conquest was top of the pile in all respects, to be expected of a £1k pair of binoculars. I didn't think the Hawke APO or Opticron were worth the extra compared to the Hawke ED X, but I didn't like the ergonomics of the latter - the strap lugs are too big and in the wrong place. My preference was for the 'feel' of the Kowa and Terra, both in the hand and against the eye... those were the two that I just wanted to keep picking up and comparing.
It's all too easy to read and view the online reviews and come away tainted by the obsessions of the presenter - one guy spends what seems like an age telling us the pop-up eye-cup on the Zeiss Terra is too tight, a major fail. I loved it! Another very good video tells us that there a virtually no CA's in the Hawke ED X and that you have to look very hard to find them in the APO - well, I can tell you they are easily visible in both!
But what I came to realise was something that might just be personal to me - that CAs are not the be-all and end-all of choosing a pair of binoculars.
So, forgive my amateurish analysis but, for me, I think that CAs are only really an issue with any of these examples when looking away from the centre. Now, I tend to look through the centre of my bins, so although much is made of CAs and edge-to-edge sharpness, I'm not convinced that these things are as important in a highly mobile binocular as they might be in a 'fixed', or tripod-mounted, telescope... with bins it's easy to keep a subject centred.
That said, and I'm probably repeating the point, the Nikon's were slightly better than the EXPS's in respect of CA's, so that might have put them in the category of the £1k pair of binoculars, had I had the opportunity to compare them with the Conquest, for instance, today.
Sorry for the long-winded post, but it helps me to crystallise my own thoughts and - getting back on topic - I thought I owed it to the Nikon M7's to reappraise my own thinking, if not the bins themselves. The store has them in 8x30, so I'll go back and try them tomorrow and order the 8x42's if I find that I've completely changed my mind about them.
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Today I tried several more pairs of binoculars and was a bit overwhelmed. All of them were ED glass, ranging from £350.00 to £900.00. I took my Olympus EXPS's with me. All of the binoculars I tried were noticeably brighter and as sharp or sharper than my Olympus, but only two or three had better control over CAs - the most expensive ones.
More than anything, when I tried the M7's yesterday, I had an expectation that they would/should be vastly better in respect of CA's than my Olympus bins (although my other priority is that I want waterproof binoculars). It was therefore the fact that the M7s were only slightly better than the EXPS's at controlling CAs (the first thing I looked for) that made me dismiss them. I confess that I might then have simply decided that the M7's were not worth the upgrade and all my other TOO BRIEF observations might have been biased towards my old bins (a kind of perverse confirmation bias!). I should have tried a lot more binoculars, which I did today, before coming to any such judgement.
Having found that only the two most expensive pairs of binoculars that I demo'd today were better for CAs than the EXPS, I concluded that the EXPS's are somewhat exceptional in that respect. The dealer agreed with me.
What I didn't demo - nor did I think about it when I was surrounded with so many options - was to give the Nikon M7's another try (mainly because they didn't have the 8x42). My original perception when I tried the M7s yesterday was that they should outperform my EXPS's, but now I'm thinking that if their CA control is as good as the EXPS's, if not slightly better, then that's a good result. I decided (with hindsight, when I got home this evening) that I should look at the M7's again - with a different mindset - and compare them to the other options.
The bins I looked at today were: Hawke ED X, Hawke APO, Kowa BD II XD, Zeiss Terra, Zeiss Conquest, Opticron DBA VHD+. I was surprised at what little difference there was between some of these optically, so I came down in favour of ergonomics, which is very subjective. The Zeiss Conquest was top of the pile in all respects, to be expected of a £1k pair of binoculars. I didn't think the Hawke APO or Opticron were worth the extra compared to the Hawke ED X, but I didn't like the ergonomics of the latter - the strap lugs are too big and in the wrong place. My preference was for the 'feel' of the Kowa and Terra, both in the hand and against the eye... those were the two that I just wanted to keep picking up and comparing.
It's all too easy to read and view the online reviews and come away tainted by the obsessions of the presenter - one guy spends what seems like an age telling us the pop-up eye-cup on the Zeiss Terra is too tight, a major fail. I loved it! Another very good video tells us that there a virtually no CA's in the Hawke ED X and that you have to look very hard to find them in the APO - well, I can tell you they are easily visible in both!
But what I came to realise was something that might just be personal to me - that CAs are not the be-all and end-all of choosing a pair of binoculars.
So, forgive my amateurish analysis but, for me, I think that CAs are only really an issue with any of these examples when looking away from the centre. Now, I tend to look through the centre of my bins, so although much is made of CAs and edge-to-edge sharpness, I'm not convinced that these things are as important in a highly mobile binocular as they might be in a 'fixed', or tripod-mounted, telescope... with bins it's easy to keep a subject centred.
That said, and I'm probably repeating the point, the Nikon's were slightly better than the EXPS's in respect of CA's, so that might have put them in the category of the £1k pair of binoculars, had I had the opportunity to compare them with the Conquest, for instance, today.
Sorry for the long-winded post, but it helps me to crystallise my own thoughts and - getting back on topic - I thought I owed it to the Nikon M7's to reappraise my own thinking, if not the bins themselves. The store has them in 8x30, so I'll go back and try them tomorrow and order the 8x42's if I find that I've completely changed my mind about them.
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Peregrine Took
Well-known member
Please don't dismiss them on the basis of my previous post, #40.
I've somewhat revised my opinion, based on having tried some alternatives, and more clarity about my own motivations and priorities. #43.
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I'm looking for a wide FOV 10x42 in the sub-700€ range, how does the M7 compare to the Kowa BD II and Hawke APO? I understand, that CA control is far from perfect in all of these binos, but what about the FOV, and not less important, DOF and distortion?
(I'm also curious about Delta Optical Titanium HD, but can't find a detailed review)
I don't have the chance to try and compare them in our shops, they are not for sale in the same places in my City, and what's worst, all the shops are in dark, narrow streets...
Peregrine Took
Well-known member
I tried the Nikon Monarch M7 10x42 today and it has considerable false colour on a dark object (television aerial) with a brightly lit background (a sunny winter's sky), even from the centre. In this respect it is slightly worse than the Zeiss terra ED. The Monarch M7 8x30 was better - no idea why - and was on a par with the Zeiss terra ED... make of that what you will.
The Hawke APO is better for CA's than the Monarch's and on a par with the Kowa BD II XD.
I could see no discernible difference between the Kowa BD II XD and the Zeiss Conquest (8x32 and 8x42), in terms of false colour. All three were on a par for contrast and all three have a lovely 3D quality.
The Kowa punches above it's weight, the M7's below their weight. I was determined to give the M7 another chance, but I'm afraid it's as my original impressions, underwhelming and not, in my opinion, worth £500.00 - more than the Kowa or the Hawke ED X at about £400.00.
I'm not interested in distortion (I"m using them mostly for birding) and the stats for FOV are readily available.
I will say that the Zeiss Conquest 8x32 FOV is very wide and comparable with the 8x42's. I could see little if any difference in brightness between the little Conquest and the 8x32's. The reason for this might be because the Conquest 8x32 used to be in the Zeiss FL range until Zeiss brought out the Victory, when they then placed the 8x32FL into the Conquest range. Fluorite crystal appears not to be just hype (the Kowa's also have some fluorite crystal content).
If anyone is interested, I'll offer another amateurish (aka real world, to me) listing of the bins that I tested today, from the perspective of someone who wants a good pair of bins for birdwatching and general nature observation (deer, hares, foxes etc):
Control of false colour:
- Best: Zeiss Conquest 8x32 (and 8x42), Kowa BD II XD 8x42.
- Very good: Hawke APO 8x42, Hawke ED X 8x42 (hardly any difference).
- Average: Nikon M7 8x30, Nikon M7 8x42 (from memory), Zeiss Terra.
- Worst (and I only list it this way because it was such a bad surprise): Nikon M7 10x42.
Immersiveness and 3D quality (another word for 'WOW, these are nice'):
- Kowa BD II XD 8x42 and Zeiss Conquest 8x32.
- No fails, but I thought these two stood out.
Tactile / ergonomics:
- As above - perhaps the Kowa is best of all, but that's just the way they fit my face.
- Plus, the Zeiss Terra, which is both good and bad; I wanted to love them and they feel great in the hand, but the focus is extremely fast and I quickly found it irritating.
- The M7's focus wheel is too close to the face, putting the index finger in an unnatural position.
That's all I can think of right now. I was surprised by how nice the Zeiss 8x32's were, and the only downside is that they are more than I originally intended to spend, but I have them and the Kowa on hold while I decide how much to spend.
The biggest lesson for me, is to try as many bins as you can - they're a lot more 'intimate' than a telescope and the tactile qualities can't be ignored, not least the way they fit your eye sockets... and take with a pinch of salt all those Y Tube experts.
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dries1
Member
I found the Monarch 7 8/10X42 easier to view with than the Kowa 8/10X42 BD II, too much angular distortion in the Kowa when panning. The focus on the Hawkes did not perform well in my sample. The Nikon to me had the best focus between the three. The conquest is a step upward so in a totally different class. It just goes to show how different we perceive glass, and of course did we get a good sample.
I bought Nikon Monarch waterproof 7 8x42 binoculars. I have no idea how to adjust these. I am afraid I am out of my league and may have to return them.
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Peregrine Took
Well-known member
^^^ What exactly is it that you can't adjust, Dianabe? Maybe someone here can help.
master5
Well-known member
check out the Nikon Monarch HG 10x42
Nikon Monarch HG 10x42 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com
The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.
I've tried it, I love it, but I can't afford it. It costs nearly twice as much as the M7, and since I'm not into birding, I don't want to spend that much, just looking for a general mid-range bino for my hikings, traveling, and to find the animal targets for my camera, when scouting in the forest, instead of always using it with the zoom lens to find the source of noises.
Peregrine Took
Well-known member
^^^ For a wide FOV 10x42 try the Kowa BD II XD 10x42. It might surprise you.
I have tried a lot of the mid-priced binoculars you have, and I agree mostly with your conclusions. Today I am trying a Fujinon HC 8x42 to see how it is. I will report after testing it out. Interesting thread.
Peregrine Took
Well-known member
I tried the Fujinon on Saturday, denco. I won't say anything until you've tried it.
I tried the Fujinon HC 8x42 and I all I can say is eegh. They are ok, but I don't think for $800(I got them on a Black Friday sale at B&H for $600) they are much better than the M7 8x42 for $500. The M7 has a bigger FOV, but the HC controls CA a little better, especially lateral. The HC is quite soft on the edge, about like the M7. One thing I really didn't like, and I have never seen this on any binoculars is the HC has all metal eye cups which are good for strength, but they just have a small edge of rubber on them where the cup touches your skin, but the rest of the eye cups are bare metal so if put them into you eye sockets at all they freeze your eye balls if it is cold out like it is here. I returned them. I don't think they are worth $800.
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Peregrine Took
Well-known member
Agree with everything you say about the Fuji, denco. But most of all, for me, the ergonomics are awful - you can't get your hands around them properly, especially when walking with the bins in one hand, as I like to do. Fuji let it slip to my dealer that they are looking into a double bridge to solve that problem... I think they might have to, because apparently nobody is buying them.
Have to say, I LOVE and have owned Fuji mirrorless cameras for several years, so I don't criticise their products lightly.
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Have to say, I LOVE and have owned Fuji mirrorless cameras for several years, so I don't criticise their products lightly.
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I agree. They are kind of a square brick design and not contoured for your hands, say like an NL. The slow sales is probably why they were on a Black Friday sale. I expected more from them because the Fujinon 10x50 and 7x50 FMTR-SX porro prisms are excellent, and I have the Fujinon 14x40 TS stabilized binocular, and it is also very good. The Fujinon 14x40 TS is also square shaped, but it has a strap on one side for your hand, which helps to one hand them. Fujinon makes some of the best IS and porro-prism binoculars around.
Peregrine Took
Well-known member
For years, Fuji have been making lenses for Hasselblad, so their own optical gear should be good. I have no complaints about their camera lenses and the ergonomics of their mirrorless cameras is second to none, but the seem to have 'over-designed' the binoculars.
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