New Fuji X-S1..the birders choice? (1 Viewer)

[earleybird]

The video is actually HS20 V DSLR so inappropriate to XS1 debate

trhis might be betterhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq2tUftH-pY

see price has dropped by another £50

Apologies ...so it is ..... sorry....

I started off watching the X-S1 video review then switched to the head to head video without noticing it was an HS20 .

I thought that I would be satisfied with my HS10 for years but the spec on the X-S1 has me drooling like a kid at a toy shop window.:-O

 

[christineredgate]

Read in AP today,that Nikon are bringing out a new superzoom bridge cam in March.I am still looking for a decent bridge cam,and I will say that the Fuji cams are more similar to DSLR's on the back,and not so many fiddly small buttons as Canon and Panasonic.

 

[earleybird]

here is the latest shootout between the Fuji X-S1 Vs Canon DSLR from the camera shop guys.
Brilliantly funny.
.http://youtu.be/AgNJ-gOOqxY:-O

 

[O.Reville1989]

X-S1 seems to suffer from horrific lens droop at high zoom.
Looked at ones in Jessops in Edinburgh and Norwich and both had a crazy amount of play, leading to an inability to take sharp images at high zoom.
Seems like the reviewers aren't paying much attention to this.....

 

[earleybird]

X-S1 seems to suffer from horrific lens droop at high zoom.
Looked at ones in Jessops in Edinburgh and Norwich and both had a crazy amount of play, leading to an inability to take sharp images at high zoom.
Seems like the reviewers aren't paying much attention to this.....

hoping that that is a bad batch :-C the lens are metal and made to extremly high specs in Japan so they should be perfect.? If its one thing Fuji do well its lens.
I've not read of this problem anywhere else yet ...I was thinking about ordering one from Amazon but I'm a tad nervous now.

 

[O.Reville1989]

hoping that that is a bad batch :-C the lens are metal and made to extremly high specs in Japan so they should be perfect.? If its one thing Fuji do well its lens.
I've not read of this problem anywhere else yet ...I was thinking about ordering one from Amazon but I'm a tad nervous now.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&message=40912080&changemode=1

This is the lens droop I was referring to. I was all set to buy one before I saw this! :eek!:

Seems like it didn't affect focus for them though so may have just been me on that front! But yea still worrying.

 

[earleybird]

crikey thats terrible !:eek!: what kind of precision engineering is that ?
My HS10 lens is still so stiff that it almosts binds sometimes. No chance of sag with that thank goodness.
Shame I really thought that the XS-1 would be the ultimate camera for me :-C
Missed a cracking shot this evening whilst walking the dog. A pair of grey Wagtails feeding in the brook .... Their yellow belly and breast was so vivid and only 8 foot from me ....dammit :C
Next time I think of leaving the camera at home I shall remember the lost opportunity.

 

[O.Reville1989]

crikey thats terrible !:eek!: what kind of precision engineering is that ?
My HS10 lens is still so stiff that it almosts binds sometimes. No chance of sag with that thank goodness.
Shame I really thought that the XS-1 would be the ultimate camera for me :-C
Missed a cracking shot this evening whilst walking the dog. A pair of grey Wagtails feeding in the brook .... Their yellow belly and breast was so vivid and only 8 foot from me ....dammit :C
Next time I think of leaving the camera at home I shall remember the lost opportunity.

Painful isn't it! The HS10 is a cracking camera! Way ahead of its time when it was released.
I was also gutted about the X-S1, as I said was on the verge of buying it and saw that, even if photo quality isn't affected the build quality is not up to the price tag.

 

[earleybird]

I was looking at the video again and noticed that the entire camera is rocking slightly so the slack is not quite as bad as it looks. They should have clamped the camera securely but even though its a disaster for Fuji. and us :-C

 

[O.Reville1989]

I was looking at the video again and noticed that the entire camera is rocking slightly so the slack is not quite as bad as it looks. They should have clamped the camera securely but even though its a disaster for Fuji. and us :-C

Yea there is a slight movement from the camera but the amount of movement is nothing compared to the movement of the lens.
I've seen a few people out and about with the X-S1 and it certainly looks impressive as a camera, just such a shame about this lens issue.

 

[earleybird]

I'm not dismissing it just yet because there is nothing else out there comparable for the money that appeals to me but I'll wait and see what Fuji do. They may improve them but then again does it actually effect the image quality ? I haven't seen a review yet where it effects the quality but perhaps the sag issue has only effected certain batches due to poor quality control ?

In the meantime I'm luvin my HS10 to bits. The more I use it the more I learn about it. It was only last month I realised that there was a one touch 2x digital zoom on the camara doh....

Tried some macro this morning on my walk.

 

[O.Reville1989]

I'm not dismissing it just yet because there is nothing else out there comparable for the money that appeals to me but I'll wait and see what Fuji do. They may improve them but then again does it actually effect the image quality ? I haven't seen a review yet where it effects the quality but perhaps the sag issue has only effected certain batches due to poor quality control ?

In the meantime I'm luvin my HS10 to bits. The more I use it the more I learn about it. It was only last month I realised that there was a one touch 2x digital zoom on the camara doh....

Tried some macro this morning on my walk.

I have read issues about getting a sharp image at full zoom due to the sagging, but then have also read that there isn't an issue at all!
Hopefully Fuji will fix it, I'm gonna go for the HS30 I think, the gambler in me wants to go for the X-S1 and just send it back if it does cause issues but I'm not n the position to fork out £525 .
Great butterfly shot by the way.

 

[chilu]

After reading the posts and having an X-S1, I can tell you that my lens doesn't droop(I purchased the camera a week ago) and the write speed for JPG+RAW is pretty fast(almost instantaneous). I am using a class 10 SD card from panasonic though, it could explain why its slow for some if using slower cards.

I am very happy with it, its fast, images are fantastic(if you don't use auto mode) and the build quality is very good at least for the one I got.

I think the extra cost comes from the bigger sensor and the outstanding EVF. I mean the EVF is so good, I don't miss optical I had on my pentax K-M that I traded. Its good that Fuji put in a decent one in the HS30 too.

In terms of images, all the way up to ISO 800 it rivals my pentax in terms of noise/colours etc. in my eyes having printed images from both. After ISO 800 a DSLR will run circles around any smaller sensor camera but I must say the X-S1 up until ISO 1600 puts in a good fight. Thats at regular mode, when I use EXR High ISO, its a little bit better after ISO 800 as well.

I was trying to figure out whether to get the HS30 instead but since I had the money, I went with the X-S1 for the better HIGH ISO(at least for the images I saw at the time) and EVF and I don't regret it.

I think with any camera, learn all the settings and get out of auto mode, it does no camera justice. Once you figure out the camera(its limits etc) and find the right settings, you will get better pictures I believe regardless.

If you would like some examples of pictures with some settings let me know, I can do my best to take them and post them here for the X-S1.

 

[earleybird]

an excelent and informative appraisal Chilu well done and thank you.

I for one would love to see some images especially of birds. The one main critisism of the HS10 I have at present is the blurring of fine detail particularly edges of objects .

With limited resources at present I'm torn between upgrading my HS10 to the X-s1 or upgrading my garrett Euroace metal detector to a AT Pro model. The cost is about the same lol

 

[earleybird]

I have read issues about getting a sharp image at full zoom due to the sagging, but then have also read that there isn't an issue at all!
Hopefully Fuji will fix it, I'm gonna go for the HS30 I think, the gambler in me wants to go for the X-S1 and just send it back if it does cause issues but I'm not n the position to fork out £525 .
Great butterfly shot by the way.

sorry I missed your response O.R

Hope you don't regret your decision. Like you I will really have to work hard to justify such a (for me) significant expenditure on a new camera.

I think if I do decide to buy a new camera I'll go for the X-S1 as its a high quality precision built metal camera and lens and would satisfy my togging needs for years to come.

I'd order from Amazon with their excellent no-quibble returns policy and have a short trial period to make sure its what i expected.

The main issue I have with the HS30 is the battery I like the versatility of AA format with both rechargables and alkaline options being available in the field. I suppose you would buy a spare Fuji battery pack and keep a charged one in your bag.

One of the main plus points of the HS30 for me is the remote shutter release facility. I cannot believe that Fuji didn't offer it with the HS20 given the deluge of critisism they received with the HS10.

edit - just seen your review of your recent purchase.. I've just sat down with some coffee and digestives looking forward to enjoying a good read

 

[chilu]

ISO 800 maximum zoom picture

For Earleybird:

Here is one picture taken at maximum zoom, ISO 800. I would not go above ISO 800 on the Fuji X-S1 for pictures that require fine details like birds at least from my own pixel peeping.

The picture of the hairy woodpecker was not taken using any of the EXR modes. I used P mode with the following changes to defaults:

Sharpness: HARD
EC: -2/3(my default setting as the X-S1 tends to overexpose)

Also, the robin picture was taken using the same settings although it is a crop, so you can see what fine details are left.

 

[earleybird]

nice shot of the woodpecker....... such a difficult shot for any camera . A dark subject against a very light background (sky) I've never yet managed to get a really good image of a bird against the sky as a backdrop.

With the woodpecker capture I find that the spot focus on my HS10 would tend to focus on the large adjacent surface like the fence rail often resulting in a blurred image.This is particularly so when the subject is in amongst foliage.
I have experimented with the zoom bracketing and best frame capture modes quite sucessfully but the memory write speed is frustratingly slow .

 

[O.Reville1989]

sorry I missed your response O.R

Hope you don't regret your decision. Like you I will really have to work hard to justify such a (for me) significant expenditure on a new camera.

I think if I do decide to buy a new camera I'll go for the X-S1 as its a high quality precision built metal camera and lens and would satisfy my togging needs for years to come.

I'd order from Amazon with their excellent no-quibble returns policy and have a short trial period to make sure its what i expected.

The main issue I have with the HS30 is the battery I like the versatility of AA format with both rechargables and alkaline options being available in the field. I suppose you would buy a spare Fuji battery pack and keep a charged one in your bag.

One of the main plus points of the HS30 for me is the remote shutter release facility. I cannot believe that Fuji didn't offer it with the HS20 given the deluge of critisism they received with the HS10.

edit - just seen your review of your recent purchase.. I've just sat down with some coffee and digestives looking forward to enjoying a good read

No problem.
I did go for the HS30 in the end, £525 at the time was just too much for me.
I have to say despite my problems with Fuji lumping 16mp onto the HS30 that I have found it to handle this high amount of pixels rather well.
It must be said though that for birds the EXR and auto modes just can't cut it.
I go straight to shutter priority mode and match shutter speed with zoom length (eg: 1/500 when at 500mm equiv). I also usually have ISO on Auto 400 and DR on 100 (Think that is the right terminology! haha).
I find this limits bluriness and with manual focus allows me to use multi shot effectively as well.
These are just my experiences so other people may have a different technique.
I have seen quite a few X-S1's in the field and they do look impressive and shots I have seen from them seem equally good.
It seems that people that are buying newer X-S1s are not having the droopy lens issue, not sure if the White orb issue is fixed but would be good if it was.
Cheers
Oli

 

[earleybird]

Hi Oli glad to hear you are getting on well with your HS30. Loved looking through your flickr gallery, some lovely captures there and lots of variety , Norfolk is known for its excellent light qualities and superb variety of bird species as is Cornwall .

I am still at the bottom of a steep learning curve regarding manual camera settings , i attended a surprisingly good day-long basic digital camera course last month but I regret I didn't plumb for the intermediate course now.

I have found numerous online tutorials including the superb free Karl Taylor video courses and the concensus of opinion seems to be to use A Aperture priority mode for birding rather than S Shutter priority.
http://mikeatkinson.net/Tutorial-4-Camera-Settings.htm
Why do you feel shutter priority mode is better for bird photography ?

 

[chilu]

nice shot of the woodpecker....... such a difficult shot for any camera . A dark subject against a very light background (sky) I've never yet managed to get a really good image of a bird against the sky as a backdrop.

With the woodpecker capture I find that the spot focus on my HS10 would tend to focus on the large adjacent surface like the fence rail often resulting in a blurred image.This is particularly so when the subject is in amongst foliage.
I have experimented with the zoom bracketing and best frame capture modes quite sucessfully but the memory write speed is frustratingly slow .

For objects against the sky with the X-S1 I have found that you can try to set dynamic range to 400% and EC to -2/3 and ensure you are using multi metering at least if you want to be able to take quick shots with not much preparation. If you have the time, spot metering etc might work as well but you might blow out the sky if your not careful. I have not found any case where I could not get the exposure I need with multi metering and the settings above. As long as I dont go beyond ISO 800 on the X-S1, the extra dynamic range does not introduce noise that I can see.

As mentioned previously by others, you have to watch the shutter speed. I try to keep it at 1/400(if your hands are steady) or faster for birds to ensure a sharp shot at maximum zoom. I dont use a tripod. I use P mode and use program shift to get the aperture or shutter speed I need for quick shots of birds. I use A mode for all other pictures I take.