new petition re driven grouse shooting (2 Viewers)

[Sharp Shin]

I'll be there tomorrow at Rainham too. The last time I spoke to Howard the warden a couple of weeks ago he said he expected over 1,000 people, so it could be very busy indeed. I plan to get there early, well before the 11.00am start.

If I see a man with a draw telescope, I'll say hi.

Otherwise have a good day.

It was a good day at Rainham today. A very good turnout and very good speeches. I thought that Charlie Moores from Birders Against Wildlife Crime was particular articulate and passionate. Good on you Charlie! My only criticism would be that Charlie's and Chris Packman's speeches might have been led rather too much by answering what has been said (and even today is being said) by the name-calling antis, the threatening bigots and the trolls. There is such a sound and scientific-based case against driven grouse shooting that we should set our own agenda. Yes, answer rational arguments put by others by all means, but to give the 'oxygen of publicity' to haters is not worth it. They love a response; they thrive on a response. That's their little 'kick'. 'And the haters, gonna hate. hate, hate ....' (Sorry for quoting Taylor Swift!)

By the way, you wouldn't have recognised me by a 'draw telescope'. The picture is of my father bird-watching sometime around the early 1960s. 'Old school'. How he ever managed to see stuff through that thing was beyond me, but he did. Respect!

Stewart

 

[ProwlingBoy]

No chance of spotting you without the draw scope then, Stewart. How great to have a photo of your father engaged in old school birdwatching (respect indeed), I thought it might be an illustration from a book.

A good turn out at Rainham but I had hoped that being so near to London it might have been a bit bigger. Early days perhaps.

Charlie Moores speech was especially good, despite him being a bit nervous at first. But as you say he hit the right mixture of passion and rationality. Again I agree that answering the Twitter trolls is pointless. However we must take the BASC, the Countryside Alliance head on and its right to highlight the kind of astroturfing of You Forgot the Birds.

It was a beautiful day for the whole thing and as a bonus I had a great view of three juvenile bearded tits slightly further along the path 30 mins before the speeches started.

It was also good to be able to take home 250 of Mark's leaflets, it's hard to explain the problems of associated with the grouse industry succinctly. I'll start distributing some of them tomorrow.

Peter

 

[MJB]

The grouse-shooting industry is aiming for some support from the public by publicising its expenditure on wages and salaries for jobs it creates, likely an attempt to deflect from the petirion to ban driven-grouse shoots. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-37002535.
MJB

 

[silver prince]

ian Botham been at it again ,the mail on sunday calling for the BBC to sack chris packam saying he should fly of our screens and spend more time with the birds state ing how grouse moors are a haven for birds rare birds are flourishing, really, not one mention of what is getting up are nose.

 

[IAN JAMES THOMPSON]

ian Botham been at it again ,the mail on sunday calling for the BBC to sack chris packam saying he should fly of our screens and spend more time with the birds state ing how grouse moors are a haven for birds rare birds are flourishing, really, not one mention of what is getting up are nose.

Have you got a link to that article please, so I can read it.
Ian.

 

[silver prince]

just google ian Botham, it will come up been trying to get a link,cant manege, will keep trying.

 

[IAN JAMES THOMPSON]

just google ian Botham, it will come up been trying to get a link,cant manege, will keep trying.

Thanks I found it.
I see Ian Botham and co are trying to get Chris Packham sacked from the BBC and the worrying thing the Daily Mail says that the BBC are having an investigation about this. Although I don't normally believe anything the Daily Mail says. I do know public opinion is behind Chris Packham.
Ian.

 

[silver prince]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...resenter-Chris-outspoken-attacks-hunting.html

 

[Sharp Shin]

The grouse-shooting industry is aiming for some support from the public by publicising its expenditure on wages and salaries for jobs it creates, likely an attempt to deflect from the petirion to ban driven-grouse shoots. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-37002535.
MJB

Yes, something is stirring in the grouse shooting industry and they are beginning to get a bit rattled. Actually, having said that we didn't ought to bother responding to the hate-mongers and the trolls, I think that this argument over the issue of employment does warrant a response. Arguments that that touch upon employment will strike a chord. I know that Mark Avery has addressed this question in his book and provided a full retort. I can't give you the chapter here, as my copy is doing a circulation amongst friends (and gaining signatures to the petition as it goes). However, the argument that grouse shooting is, on balance, a job creator strikes me as more than a little odd given that, in Scotland, areas devoted to deer stalking and grouse shooting provide possibly the lowest level of employment per square mile to be found in any temperate region in Europe. Driven grouse shooting estates are effectively a no-go area for any other venture or enterprise. George Monbiot has pointed this out, and he goes on to say "national parks could generate new jobs, with an economy built on wildlife and tourism. They would restore both human populations and the other species that were wiped out by the Clearances. They would bring life of all kinds to barren lands." In the bigger picture, the employment card doesn't seem so strong. On top of this, one has to question the objectivity of a survey carried out by people so close to the driven-grouse shooting industry, and examine whether there might be some inclusion of people who would be employed in the region anyway. (If a grouse-shooting sheik ventures into a local pub and orders a pint, is the landlord who pulls the pint included in the employment figure? Well, not that a sheik would venture into the local pub, or a visiting banker go to buy his groceries from the local shop - but you get my drift.) And, whilst we're on this question, how much of this said employment is for women? Perhaps hidden under-employment here!

On the question of Ian Botham, perhaps his words are worth less attention. I wouldn't go to Chris Packham for an analysis of cricket, so I suggest we shouldn't go to Ian Botham for an analysis of nature and conservation.

Stewart

 

[ProwlingBoy]

Here's Chris Packham's retort to Sir Ian Batting on a Fair Wicket.

The Mail article under Botham's byline seems strangely disjointed, if slickly written, like PR bullet points linked together with some weak "jokes". One rather unpleasant aspect is the phrase, "his stream of outbursts – a sort of eco-Tourette's" which I suspect is a coded reference to Chris's Asperger's syndrome. As Stewart suggests there is no need to respond to this sort of attack. Chris can handle it, but it is worth noting.

We just need to contest any alleged facts and keep the petition signatures rolling in. That will really annoy the grouse shooters.

 

[rosbifs]

ian Botham been at it again ,the mail on sunday calling for the BBC to sack chris packam saying he should fly of our screens and spend more time with the birds state ing how grouse moors are a haven for birds rare birds are flourishing, really, not one mention of what is getting up are nose.

Having had the mis-fortune of spending time with botham i can honestly say he was a bit of a ****. Great for a lads night out i imagine....

Sad because he was a hero for so many years. The flesh was a different thing.

 

[JoanT]

ian Botham been at it again ,the mail on sunday calling for the BBC to sack chris packam saying he should fly of our screens and spend more time with the birds state ing how grouse moors are a haven for birds rare birds are flourishing, really, not one mention of what is getting up are nose.

There is a 38 degree petition addressed to BBC saying don't sack him please find and sign haven't got link to hand

 

[Sharp Shin]

There is a 38 degree petition addressed to BBC saying don't sack him please find and sign haven't got link to hand

The link to this petition is here.

Another petition on change.org, which is now closed, managed to get over 81,000 signatures. (Interestingly, this is just more than the petition against driven grouse shooting has received, so far.)

I can't see the BBC sacking Chris. He hasn't done a Clarkson and thumped someone on set for giving him the wrong food! The so-called Countryside Alliance and Ian Botham continue to use the word 'controversial' when discussing Chris's stance. Killing Hen Harriers is against the law. Since when has defending the law and advocating steps to ensure the upholding of the law been 'controversial'? I would say that the boot is on the other foot.

Stewart

 

[Mickr]

I guess the shooters are starting to understand what it feels like to be a Hen Harrier or a grouse, the petition looks like it is going to get very close to the required 100k and it could even reach that figure. One option for them would have been to try and get their house in order, the other option was to hit out at people and I think we know the option they've taken.

Their arrogance has been astounding so far as they've sat back in the expectation that this would all blow over.

 

[rosbifs]

Copy of inglorious arrived today:
Foreward - the 'pacman' - a little aggressive but maybe that sets the tone for the book and maybe what is required - feels like we a re approaching a crossroads.
Chapter 1 Hen Harrier - quite a bit of padding regarding statistics but overall jist in right direction...

NB I am not a literary person (more statistical) so don't take my word for it. I'm going to cram another 15mins before head to work....

 

[John Cantelo]

My only criticism would be that Charlie's and Chris Packman's speeches might have been led rather too much by answering what has been said (and even today is being said) by the name-calling antis, the threatening bigots and the trolls. ..... but to give the 'oxygen of publicity' to haters is not worth it. They love a response; they thrive on a response. That's their little 'kick'. 'And the haters, gonna hate. hate, hate ....'

Actually, I thought the way in which Packham wittily turned the bile of the haters against them, whilst not indulging in the same sort of attack, was beautifully done. As for giving the bigots & trolls the 'oxygen of publicity', they've been so crass in the way they've tried to threaten, intimidate and abuse those against them that they've been one of the best assets the campaign could hope for! You can hear his whole speech at https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mrb3RIrQlE0 and make your own mind up ...

 

[John Cantelo]

A wonderful foot-in-mouth moment in yesterday's Sunday Times when the Moorland Association’s Amanda Anderson commented that ‘If we let the hen harrier in, we will soon have nothing else. That is why we need this brood management plan’ the clear inference, edging towards approval, being that her members haven't been 'letting Hen Harriers in' by what can only be illegal means. What is being said in reality is "if we obey the law" as if doing so is merely optional for her and those she represents.

 

[MJB]

A wonderful foot-in-mouth moment in yesterday's Sunday Times when the Moorland Association’s Amanda Anderson commented that ‘If we let the hen harrier in, we will soon have nothing else. That is why we need this brood management plan’ the clear inference, edging towards approval, being that her members haven't been 'letting Hen Harriers in' by what can only be illegal means. What is being said in reality is "if we obey the law" as if doing so is merely optional for her and those she represents.

A 'momentum perfectum' of 'pedem posuit in os meum per amanda'. Sheer bliss, but probably way over her head!:t::t::t:
MJB

 

[MJB]

A wonderful foot-in-mouth moment in yesterday's Sunday Times when the Moorland Association’s Amanda Anderson commented that ‘If we let the hen harrier in, we will soon have nothing else. That is why we need this brood management plan’ the clear inference, edging towards approval, being that her members haven't been 'letting Hen Harriers in' by what can only be illegal means. What is being said in reality is "if we obey the law" as if doing so is merely optional for her and those she represents.

A 'momentum perfectum' of 'pedem posuit in os meum per amanda'. Sheer bliss, but probably way over her head!:t::t::t:
MJB

 

[Sharp Shin]

Bless you Amanda for your naive honesty! You may expected to be quoted quite often in the coming weeks.

I have just noticed that Lush (good on them) are running a 'Name and Save' competition, in which you can suggest a name for one the tagged Hen Harrier chicks. I think 'Amanda' would be a wonderful name to suggest.

Stewart