Nikon Premier SE line is there a difference from the SE? (1 Viewer)

[mooreorless]

I was told you can tell if a Nikon SE binocular is from the Premier line by the serial number. This is the first I have heard that there might be a difference between the SE and the Premier SE. Is there a difference or is this just a marketing thing?:eek!: Does anybody know? So should I sell my 10x42SE and 12x50SE and get the superior Premier 10SE and 12SE ?
Regards,Steve

 

[ceasar]

Of course you should! If you agree to sell them to me at a price I find attractive I will disclose to you by Cert. Mail RRR the secret to telling the difference. Or if you prefer, just send me your 12 x 50's instead! (Properly packaged and insured, of course.) I already have the 10. :king:
Bob

 

[mooreorless]

Ok Bob I will meet you at the Lost Creek Shoe Shop so you can buy my Nikon 10SE and then help me decide if I want to trade my old 7x30 SLC for the newer version 8x30SLC while you tell me about this.:t:
Regards,Steve

 

[Pileatus]

I was told you can tell if a Nikon SE binocular is from the Premier line by the serial number. This is the first I have heard that there might be a difference between the SE and the Premier SE. Is there a difference or is this just a marketing thing?:eek!: Does anybody know? So should I sell my 10x42SE and 12x50SE and get the superior Premier 10SE and 12SE ?
Regards,Steve

Steve,
There's no difference. They simply changed the name from Superior E to Premier SE.
John

 

[mooreorless]

Hi John, I thought so. I know I would of read that here for sure.They should of called them Super Premier SE
Regards,Steve

 

[ceasar]

Steve,
My youngest son is at Pitt now and I have been thinking of a good excuse to take that route through the center of the state and stopping off for lunch around Mifflintown and possibly shop for a new pair of socks. I wonder if his mother will go for it? Will PM you but don't hold your breath!||
Bob

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Of course the next one will be the HE or the ME ... Huron E or Michigan E ...

I suspect there is no difference either ... just look at the elevation of the LX (or is it LX L) to the Premier line.

 

[brocknroller]

Of course the next one will be the HE or the ME ... Huron E or Michigan E ...

I suspect there is no difference either ... just look at the elevation of the LX (or is it LX L) to the Premier line.

Yes, there was a discussion on BF about the "Premier LX", which I think was a typo (should have been Premier LX L), with somebody wondering if they were bringing back the original Venturer LX.

It appears that Nikon is using the name "Premier" for its top of the line bins (though I haven't seen this label used with the new EDG, perhaps the intention is not to include them because they are not just "premium" but "alpha bins").

Nikon used to have another label, "Criterion", which they used for their premium bins.

So this is a marketing strategy, not a change in models.

However, I have often wondered if over the time the SE has been out Nikon, without fanfare, upgraded the coatings, as Leica did with the Trinovid BA (they added the scratch resistant coatings on the later production runs but never announced it)?

I like the color saturation on the E2 and original LX better than the SE (or at least my SE, which is sharp and contrasty, but the colors are somewhat flat - they don't "pop" out at you like the E2 and particularly the LX).

The colors are snappier and brighter in the E2 and even more so in the LX, which has even better contrast.

I'd like to try a later production run of the SE 8x32 to see if the coatings are different (i.e., better).

I've tried two samples of the 8x30 EII, and each one had different coatings, one being a bit "snappier" than the other, but both still improved over the SE.

So if Nikon changed the coatings on the E2 during its short run, perhaps they also did on later production runs of the SE.

They changed the glass on the EII to lead free glass, which I didn't like at all in the LX L (added more CA), but on the E2 the lead glass didn't seem to affect performance though the color palette is slightly skewed to the warm end - reds are a bit orangey and blues a bit purplish compared to the more "true blue" SE.

If anyone HAS seen a difference in coatings between different sample SEs, please POST your comments!

Thanks.

Brock

 

[ceasar]

There is a difference in the coatings on my SE's; but I note here that I am comparing my 8x with my 10x. My 10x (SN#005xxx) objective lenses have strong magenta coloring. On my 8x (SN#505xxx) the objective lenses have a dominant green color with magenta undertones. The ocular coatings appear to be the same on both. I think the 10x is an older version. I purchased it used several years ago, in excellent condition. I got the 8x from Eagle Optics last year. At that time they told me it was the last one they had in stock.
Bob

 

[elkcub]

Brock,

I just acquired an 8x32 Premier SE from EO for $499. Seemed like a good price. When I last compared the SE with the LX L, about two years ago, I concluded that the LX L was more "vivid," and bought it. Now it's the other way around with the current SE model. In fact, I find the color gradation of the SE approaches my reference standard, the Swift 804 ED, although I'll have to confirm that with more bird observation. People say the LX L has more lateral CA than the SE, incidentally, even to the point of being a limitation, — but not to my eyes! There again, it may be due to "improvements" made at different points in time, or sample variation. (The wisdom of a manufacturer not pointing out every small tweak may be to avoid buyer consternation and complaints.)

Nowadays I use eyeglasses, which eliminates the problem I had with the very wide SE and EII eyecups. Using the "thumbs up grip" (TUG) has also reduced image vibration considerably, and the SE now feels positively comfortable. Previously, I found them to be really awkward. The TUG has made a great deal of difference.

I've been following some of your very fine posts on CN, as well as those of Arthur Pinewood. Nice.

Ed

 

[brocknroller]

Bob and Ed,

Thanks for your feedback. My SE has green coatings with some magenta, but the SN# begins with 501, so they are older than Bob's.

Ed, have you tried Bushwacker covers (#6) on your SE? By extending the barrels, it might enable you to reposition your hands such that your elbows are pointing down instead of frontward.

My LX L had vivid colors, but like the E2, the color rendition didn't match what I see naked eye, colors were "warmer".

Both the E2 and LX L have lead-free glass whereas the SE and LX, which have truer color rendition, have lead glass. However, I don't know if the glass alone or the combination of lead-free glass and different coatings are the cause of the skewed color palette.

The original LX has the most vivid colors I've seen in a binoculars. Only an ED bin can match it. I compared my 8x32 LX to a 8x42 Promaster ED, and the color saturation and color rendition were both very close.

The views through the ED were brighter and showed substantially less CA in high contrast situations.

As much as I like the LX, it lacks the DOF and 3-D views of the SE, and it's harder to hold steady with my large hands. However, the focuser is much faster than the sluggish SE's and more comfortable to turn.

If I could buy an SE that has the superior coatings of the LX but still has lead glass, I'd have the best of both words.

I have a friend who bought the sale priced 8x32 SE. I will ask him about the serial #. If it's newer than mine, I will ask him to send it to me so I can compare it to my earlier sample.

The SE isn't built as rugged as the LX and it's not waterproof, but the SE is well sealed, and it's taken a few lumps without losing collimation, so it's hardy for a porro. More robust than the E2.

I'll let you know what I find. Thanks again.

Brock

 

[Pinewood]

Hello Ed,

I hope that you may enjoy your new glass. I am certain that you already know my problems with the SE, but I have always acknowledged that I may be suffering from an uncommon problem but not an imaginary problem with the SE's blackouts. Although I believe that my problem was inherent to the design and not fixed by a few tweaks.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

 

[elkcub]

Brock,

Whereas, my 8x32 LX L has a distinctly green objective and eye lens, the new SE's objective is subtle magenta, with some green reflections. The eye lens is green. To my perception, this particular SE (s/n = 550xxx) outperforms my LX L in brightness, clarity, and color contrast. Maybe it's a "Bing Cherry."

Nikon announced that as of some date, which I can't recall, all Nikon optical products were lead-free, so it would be very surprising if this recent specimen has that kind of glass.

You know, the implication is that somehow eco-glass compromises the performance of the optic, but two designers I've talked with with say that the new glass is as good or better than the old, and that it gives them more design options for subtle corrections. I'll never figure it out, but it's performance that counts in the end.

BTW, the SE supply at EO has now dried up. Is Nikon re-introducing the SE or is it not?

Ed

 

[Kevin Purcell]

BTW, the SE supply at EO has now dried up. Is Nikon re-introducing the SE or is it not?

Ed

From the comments on the other EO and SE thread (from EO and the EO blog) apparently not. The SE is at it's End of Life.

I guess the LXL now take their role in being second banana after the EDG.

 

[elkcub]

From the comments on the other EO and SE thread (from EO and the EO blog) apparently not. The SE is at it's End of Life.

I guess the LXL now take their role in being second banana after the EDG.

Maybe I got the very last one. 550276 looking for 550277 or greater. 3

 

[elkcub]

(Brock) ...
Ed, have you tried Bushwacker covers (#6) on your SE? By extending the barrels, it might enable you to reposition your hands such that your elbows are pointing down instead of frontward.

Oh, this got lost in the muddle. No, I haven't tried those covers. The problem for me is the strain on my thumbs, particularly the right one. From an ergonomics perspective, using a TUG (thumbs up grip) rotates the hands 90 deg. and naturally forces the elbows inward. Since the thumbs are placed on the face side of the strap attachment, more room is allowed for the hands along the length of the binocular, and the weight of the instrument is supported by the palms. It seems unnatural at first, but pain reduction does increase enjoyment quite a bit.

I've found this method reduces image vibration significantly, since the elbows-in position allows for triangulation. If there is a limitation it's probably access to the focusing wheel by one or more fingers. The LX L is absolutely perfect for this technique. The SE is a bit of a stretch since the wheel is relatively small, but still I've adapted to it. A surprise is that the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP also works with a TUG, since I would have guessed the front overhang would be too great. My biggest surprise is the extent to which the TUG stabilizes my Swaro 10x25.

I'd be interested in your evaluation of the TUG, with or without the Bushwacker covers, since you have large hands.

(Incidentally, for those with chronic thumb pain from conventional computer mice, there is a "VerticalMouse" marketed by evoluent.com, which rotates the hand exactly the same way.) http://evoluent.com/

Ed

 

[Kevin Purcell]

For those using TUG (the military grip!) try focusing with both index fingers (one for each direction pushing). This allows you just to get a single fingertip on the focuser which is good enough to push but not pull the focuser in position.

I started using this technique when I strained my right index finger. With half the work it was doing fine. I now find I do this naturally (even when not using the TUG grip).

With two finger focusing I can get this grip to work on almost all bins: the only ones that give problems are full sized porros (Bushnell Legend 8x42 for example). In those cases thumb focusing can work (though you need to move your thumb to do it). Or prefocusing. But I suspect something like TUG + full-sized porros + warbler watching might not work so well.

 

[elkcub]

Kevin,

Good point. Two finger focusing from above is generally what works best.

I've always found the 804 HR/5 Audubons to be particularly easy to handle, even though they are a rather large binoculars. The 826 Kestrel is even larger, and also easy to use — elbows down. Why?

It turns out that I unconsciously learned to use a TUG, resting the binocular on the palms of my hands, elbows down, but in this case using my thumbs to operate the focus wheel (as you described, pushing from either side) from below rather than from above. If I need to change focus rapidly, I reach over the top and pull with either hand.

I don't usually use the Audubons for warbler watching, but it does work. In my inventory, the LX L is probably the best considering its amazing focusing speed.

Ed