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Nikon SE's vs Vortex Stokes DLS (??!! is this heresy?) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter rivergazer
- Start date
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
More so than any other optical product there are "straight" folks and "angled" folks so these are not interchangeable products.
Optically they look the same (though they different by one component at least but that ergonomics difference makes all the difference.
I think there has been a slow and steady drift in choice from the straight and to the angled scopes in the US. I can recall that most American birders (listers) would each have their own straight scopes often on smaller tripods that they would squat down or sit down to use. But I guess if you are sharing the scope, want to carry a smaller tripod, etc, etc then angled seems to be more widely preferred today amongst casual birders. I notice some of the newer Chinese scopes are only coming in angled now.
So perhaps they have a big inventory on straight scopes and a know they can sell the rest of the angled for full price before they need to make a change.
The other thing to compare it to is Vortex selling off the old stock of Vortex Nomad scopes both straight and angled to Cameraland and EO. In this case the older and optically not quite as good as the Sandpiper scope has an 80mm objective and it goes for the same price now (though it was priced higher at full price).
So Vortex must see a difference in popularity (e.g. the Cornell scope review must sell quite a few of these) so they kept the most popular one.
It's a logical argument at least
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rivergazer
Well-known member
Well ..... hate to shift back to the original thread about the SE's and Stokes DLS, but guess what? I'm keeping the 8X32 SE's!! Two days ago (the end of Angelo's stated 7 day return period) I emailed to tell him they'd be coming back, but kept re-evaluating them, and started having serious misgivings about letting them go. He's been very patient, and told me if I keep using them, it's likely I'll never want to give them up. The metamorphosis was very gradual until 2-3 days ago when the "eureka moments" with the SE's started coming more and more frequently, and now, every time I switch between the two, the SE is the immediate winner. I wouldn't say it's LOTS better, but it is consistently better, just about no matter what the conditions. Now that I've "seen the light", it's hard to believe that I didn't see it right away, but I didn't. Much thanks to all who've held my hand through this agonizing process; ALL the input has been of value, and I think it helped me to not only make the right decision, but also a comfortable decision now in my tortured mind.
The 10X42 SE's have not captured my fondness the way the 8X have, and have decided that at least at this time, the 10X format is just not suited to my viewing, so they'll be going back to Angelo, unless someone here wants them for the $595 I paid. I emailed and messaged Horukuru and he hasn't responded, so don't know if he's interested.
Finally made an informed, comfortable decision, and the torture is over .... sincerest thanks to all ...... I'll probably need you again in the future, maybe to make a decision about a straight or angled scope!! LOL!
marty
The 10X42 SE's have not captured my fondness the way the 8X have, and have decided that at least at this time, the 10X format is just not suited to my viewing, so they'll be going back to Angelo, unless someone here wants them for the $595 I paid. I emailed and messaged Horukuru and he hasn't responded, so don't know if he's interested.
Finally made an informed, comfortable decision, and the torture is over .... sincerest thanks to all ...... I'll probably need you again in the future, maybe to make a decision about a straight or angled scope!! LOL!
marty
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elkcub
Silicon Valley, California
Good for you. As you've discovered, by willpower alone one can not instantly appreciate something never perceived before, and for which one has not developed verbal descriptors. Side by side comparison with something known may actually be counter-productive; because by clinging to old criteria one tends to inhibit the formation of a new perceptual construct. In general, this phenomenon is called "mental set."
Given enough exposure to the SE image, in this case, the perceptual system may eventually say "ah, ha," or "eureka." A clear percept has emerged from the morass that is not easily forgotten, but also not easily conveyed to someone else in verbal terms.
I've had one or two such experiences; the first with the Swift 804ED and the second with the 8x32SE. At least for me the two were not the same but they were worth experiencing.
Congratulations!
Ed
Given enough exposure to the SE image, in this case, the perceptual system may eventually say "ah, ha," or "eureka." A clear percept has emerged from the morass that is not easily forgotten, but also not easily conveyed to someone else in verbal terms.
I've had one or two such experiences; the first with the Swift 804ED and the second with the 8x32SE. At least for me the two were not the same but they were worth experiencing.
Congratulations!
Ed
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
I don't think that's too unusual.
The 10x are less of a standout (and more designed to a particular birder audience) than the 8x. The 10x appeared first (by a year or two).
I like both of them but I can see why the wide FOV would make people more immediately go "Wow" over the 8x rather than the 10x.
FrankD
Well-known member
Kevin,
The only time I can think of that I would not want an angled scope is if I was using one of those gunstock devices to utilize a spotter. Since I haven't been down that road yet for any of my applications there just doesn't seem a point to owning one.
Marty,
Glad to see that you saw the light...pun intended. The SE will give you years and years of great service. I hope you are not getting rid of your Stokes though. They may become a sort of collector's item as well.
The only time I can think of that I would not want an angled scope is if I was using one of those gunstock devices to utilize a spotter. Since I haven't been down that road yet for any of my applications there just doesn't seem a point to owning one.
Marty,
Glad to see that you saw the light...pun intended. The SE will give you years and years of great service. I hope you are not getting rid of your Stokes though. They may become a sort of collector's item as well.
rivergazer
Well-known member
Ok now, what about scopes?
Thanks again to all for the helpful comments! Birding has become much simpler and much more enjoyable now. Just one pair of binoculars instead of three, and no constantly switching back and forth, agonizing over the differences. Problem is now, this thread kinda morphed into talk about scopes, and now I'm thinking scope!! At one of my regular haunts, there's a pair of Ospreys that I often view perched from 2/300 yards, and others, including an occasional bald eagle. I'd like to get a closer view. After seeing some of the spectacular pics in the Gallery, am also looking ahead to the day photography will become a must. How many thousands of dollars do I have to spend to get a scope that won't be disappointing after getting accustomed to the view of the 8X32 SE's? Nothing immediate going to happen here, but a few of the usual sage comments would be appreciated.
marty
Thanks again to all for the helpful comments! Birding has become much simpler and much more enjoyable now. Just one pair of binoculars instead of three, and no constantly switching back and forth, agonizing over the differences. Problem is now, this thread kinda morphed into talk about scopes, and now I'm thinking scope!! At one of my regular haunts, there's a pair of Ospreys that I often view perched from 2/300 yards, and others, including an occasional bald eagle. I'd like to get a closer view. After seeing some of the spectacular pics in the Gallery, am also looking ahead to the day photography will become a must. How many thousands of dollars do I have to spend to get a scope that won't be disappointing after getting accustomed to the view of the 8X32 SE's? Nothing immediate going to happen here, but a few of the usual sage comments would be appreciated.
marty
Kevin Purcell
Well-known member
You might be better asking this over on the Spotter subforum ...
but the short answer is the top scopes do look like the top bins and yes you have to spend money to get the look. But I'd start in the middle and look for bargains too to keep the cost down.
but the short answer is the top scopes do look like the top bins and yes you have to spend money to get the look. But I'd start in the middle and look for bargains too to keep the cost down.
I am relieved you didn't send the SE's back! Big mistake! You will never get a better binocular optically. Try this. Set up a book with FINE print that is hard to read at about 20 feet away and then try your Stokes and then the SE's. If you can not see the difference in the print with the SE's I think you need to get your eyes tested! The SE's are amazing binoculars and with their increasing rarity you are making a BIG mistake returning them. It is a learning process to appreciate good optics and often times takes alot of observing to discern better binoculars from lesser binoculars. Keep the SE's and some day I guarantee you will be glad you did.
Dennis
John M Robinson
Well-known member
I purposely stayed away from commenting because I didn't want to tell you, you were wrong in what you were seeing. We all have different eyes and mayabe the SEs just weren't for you. That said I own a lot of good bins including a cherry pair of 8x42 Ultravid BRs, and the 8x32SE are my favorite pair. They really do give me that Wow view, even against the Leica's. I'm glad you finally came around to what I was seeing.
John
BirderSean
Well-known member
I've never used the SEs but they sound great.
Last year, I shopped around quite a bit for 10x and ended up with the Stokes DLS 10x42 for $450 out the door. For that price, they are a solid bin, with great optics, and I'm glad I made the purchase. I was ready to spend $1000 at the time, but am glad I didn't. I couldn't find anything optically better (to my eyes).
Last year, I shopped around quite a bit for 10x and ended up with the Stokes DLS 10x42 for $450 out the door. For that price, they are a solid bin, with great optics, and I'm glad I made the purchase. I was ready to spend $1000 at the time, but am glad I didn't. I couldn't find anything optically better (to my eyes).
rivergazer
Well-known member
Good choice Sean. Even now after living with the SE's for a while, the Stokes are still a pleasure to put up to my eyes. Great view, waterproof, bulletproof, eyecups that WORK!! Still love 'em.