Norfolk birding (111 Viewers)

[melodious]

I'd also like to know if the hybrid/inbred thing can be sorted, i'd accept inbred for a wee armchair tick!

 

[Lightthiscandle]

Not wanting to harm the credibility of the LAP at Houghton, but when we saw it today, it had jumped over the fence into a chicken run and occasionally took shelter in a coop!
The chickens seemed terrified of it for some reason!

Had a Common and a Rough-legged Buzzard at the site, as well as a large flock of Brambling!

 

[wolfbirder]

Not wanting to harm the credibility of the LAP at Houghton, but when we saw it today, it had jumped over the fence into a chicken run and occasionally took shelter in a coop!
The chickens seemed terrified of it for some reason!

Had a Common and a Rough-legged Buzzard at the site, as well as a large flock of Brambling!

Maybe it felt safer there than under the ivy bushes where it was being chased out of by some photographers yesterday (I was told).

 

[john.roberts]

LAP Houghton.

Not wanting to harm the credibility of the LAP at Houghton, but when we saw it today, it had jumped over the fence into a chicken run and occasionally took shelter in a coop!
The chickens seemed terrified of it for some reason!

Had a Common and a Rough-legged Buzzard at the site, as well as a large flock of Brambling!

The chap who lives in the house where the chicken run is told us yesterday that he had a pair in the run till the that one what is being seen jumped out
A W O L .John

 

[john.roberts]

Northern Harrier.Thornham

A big thanks to the Norfolk birders who helped with site info for N Harrier we had good scope views from Thornham harbour mid afternoon Sunday. JOHN

 

[melodious]

The chap who lives in the house where the chicken run is told us yesterday that he had a pair in the run till the that one what is being seen jumped out
A W O L .John

Can't see much mileage in this bird. I don't know how common captive birds are in Norfolk but would suspect very. Widely sold in the UK from £15 upwards with pure birds rare and the vast majority of captive birds being impure birds looking very much like this one (with varying amounts of red on the belly).

Literally!

 

[wolfbirder]

Don't doubt the escape theory but couldnt see a house anywhere near the site.

 

[john.roberts]

Don't doubt the escape theory but couldn't see a house anywhere near the site.

I think its the game keepers cottage we drove around from Limekiln lane? then turned left at some cross rds keeping the estate on our left and we came to the cottage on our left there was two chaps talking who we thought might have been birders and we asked them about the LAP and then said there's one in the Chicken run at the side of the cottage and your welcome to come and have a look at and the other has gone Awol. john

 

[Andy Musgrove]

Hi Andy

I see that is has black redstart as a 'missing species' There was one by the beach boardwalk in early October.

Paul

Thanks Paul - but the winter map only includes Nov to Feb. If you can find one in the next 2 months then please add it!

Cheers

Andy

 

[MICK SAUNT]

Peregrines In Norwich

Anyone seen the peregrine(s?) over Norwich recently?

It's just that on the latest WildSounds newsletter they mention a donation to the Hawk and Owl Trust to put up a video camera on a potential nest site on Norwich Cathedral.

I believe that two birds were present there last spring although both birds had departed by May but if anyone has any other info to the contrary would be interesting to hear.

 

[Dave Appleton]

While it might not take things too far into the past i can confirm that at least one of the Wolferton males was dark-throated in March 1990. It had me puzzled enough to revisit the site (though dipped), suspect the possibility of hybridisation (or on rethinking much later inbreeding) and consequently Golden Pheasant never made it on to my list.

Thanks Melodious - that's useful info for when it comes to building up a picture of exactly what's going on with these birds. I'd still like to hear from anyone who has seen Golden Pheasants at Wolferton that were checked for dark throats, and observed not to have dark throats. There must be some photos somewhere?

You are right, this bird clearly is semi feral, though personally I do not see much difference between those birds once introduced in Bucks, and and any scrapping around in the countryside of Norfolk that may also have been from an introduced stock. I know there are counter arguments here, it's just the way I feel about these pheasants.

Well, I think there's a world of difference between a captive bird that has escaped or been deliberately released, and a bird that is probably several generations away from captivity and part of a population that, whilst originating from escaped or released birds, is now self-sustaining without the assistance of further introductions. Otherwise you are saying there is no difference between the escaped Ruppell's Griffon Vulture that's still carrying its jessees and a Little Owl. You could, however, very reasonably argue that whilst the Bedfordshire population of Lady Amherst's Pheasants appeared to be self-sustaining up until the 90s, the fact that they're now virtually extinct means that they weren't. David N makes a fair case against that view, though I don't know how much habitat destruction really is the cause of the decline in both species (except at Wayland Wood, where it clearly was the case).

It seems (although I have no proof of this) that a variety of different species are 'purposefully' realeased by shooters (or prehaps accidently, where the origins of chicks have not been checked!!)

You might be right, though I'm not sure these pheasants (Golden and Lady A's at least) are really popular for shooting. Although some are doubtless accidental escapes I suspect many are deliberately released, but probably just because either someone thinks the countryside would be a better place with some colourful Pheasants in it or because they don't want to continue keeping the birds (perhaps because they're not pure) and don't wish to kill them. In some cases we should also consider the possibility that birds are released in order to provide an attraction to fee-paying visitors (note: I have no reason at all to think that's the case with any of Norfolk's pheasants, just something to consider). In any of these cases those responsible for the release are unlikely to own up to it as it's (I think) illegal to have release them.

I note that photos of Bromyard Lady Amherst's Pheasants also show redness on the belly of males, so this is not just a feature with the Norfolk & Pensthorpe birds. Could this be a mutation over years of inbreeding in the same way Golden pheasants have developed black throats? Apart from the small patches of red on the underparts, this bird looks a pretty good candidate to me, not that I am any expert.

That is a possibility I've considered. If both species share a common ancestor they could both have the genes capable of producing a red belly, but these are dormant in Lady A's. Mutation could, perhaps, result in these genes being expressed. But really I have no idea if this is possible. I've never heard of red-bellied Lady A's being described as a mutation - if it was the case I'd expect this to be a recognised and named mutation like 'obscurus' is in Golden Pheasants (and 'tenebrosus' in Pheasants - the so-called melanistic form), so I suspect it is just hybridisation. But yes, I'm open to that as a possibility.

I guess the lack of any known birds in the area suggests it is an escape, but I just wonder whether we should be so quick to dismiss it? How many Lady A pheasants are known to be kept in collections in Norfolk?

No matter how common or rare they are in collections (and I think they're common) surely it HAS to be either an escaped bird or a released bird? The nearest feral population is in Bedfordshire, and these things are pretty sedentary species. Also the fact that it's been showing reasonably well marks it as being different from the Bedfordshire birds - I spent hours looking for them in the early 90s before I caught a glimpse of one. But anyway, John's revelation about the chicken run clears that one up fair and square!

 

[Penny Clarke]

Fabulous afternoon watching Two Red headed Smew, pair of Red breasted Mergansers, a Goosander, tons of waders at Boal Quay, King's Lynn. Wonderful views of a Drake Mandarin in 'The Walks', dipped on the LA Pheasant and ended up at Flitcham.

See blog for full account.

Best Wishes Penny:girl:

PHOTOS & VIDEOS NOW ADDED TO MY BLOG ON ALL POSTS BACK AS FAR AS 29th November 2010

 

[wolfbirder]

Thanks Melodious - that's useful info for when it comes to building up a picture of exactly what's going on with these birds. I'd still like to hear from anyone who has seen Golden Pheasants at Wolferton that were checked for dark throats, and observed not to have dark throats. There must be some photos somewhere?



Well, I think there's a world of difference between a captive bird that has escaped or been deliberately released, and a bird that is probably several generations away from captivity and part of a population that, whilst originating from escaped or released birds, is now self-sustaining without the assistance of further introductions. Otherwise you are saying there is no difference between the escaped Ruppell's Griffon Vulture that's still carrying its jessees and a Little Owl. You could, however, very reasonably argue that whilst the Bedfordshire population of Lady Amherst's Pheasants appeared to be self-sustaining up until the 90s, the fact that they're now virtually extinct means that they weren't. David N makes a fair case against that view, though I don't know how much habitat destruction really is the cause of the decline in both species (except at Wayland Wood, where it clearly was the case).


You might be right, though I'm not sure these pheasants (Golden and Lady A's at least) are really popular for shooting. Although some are doubtless accidental escapes I suspect many are deliberately released, but probably just because either someone thinks the countryside would be a better place with some colourful Pheasants in it or because they don't want to continue keeping the birds (perhaps because they're not pure) and don't wish to kill them. In some cases we should also consider the possibility that birds are released in order to provide an attraction to fee-paying visitors (note: I have no reason at all to think that's the case with any of Norfolk's pheasants, just something to consider). In any of these cases those responsible for the release are unlikely to own up to it as it's (I think) illegal to have release them.



That is a possibility I've considered. If both species share a common ancestor they could both have the genes capable of producing a red belly, but these are dormant in Lady A's. Mutation could, perhaps, result in these genes being expressed. But really I have no idea if this is possible. I've never heard of red-bellied Lady A's being described as a mutation - if it was the case I'd expect this to be a recognised and named mutation like 'obscurus' is in Golden Pheasants (and 'tenebrosus' in Pheasants - the so-called melanistic form), so I suspect it is just hybridisation. But yes, I'm open to that as a possibility.



No matter how common or rare they are in collections (and I think they're common) surely it HAS to be either an escaped bird or a released bird? The nearest feral population is in Bedfordshire, and these things are pretty sedentary species. Also the fact that it's been showing reasonably well marks it as being different from the Bedfordshire birds - I spent hours looking for them in the early 90s before I caught a glimpse of one. But anyway, John's revelation about the chicken run clears that one up fair and square!

You are absolutely correct in everything you say, I am sorry it is just my unfairly flippant view regards introduced pheasants. I realise I leave my self wide open to criticism regards comparison to other escapes.

Regards it showing well, there is not a huge amount of cover, just a strip of fairly degraded roadside scrub and ivy about five foot wide along the length of the roadside, with grass on one side and road on the other. Sadly I gather it is being pushed out of any scrub at times though it very quickly darts back into the densest, dark cover whenever disturbed. Where it feeds out of view. It then occasionally feeds just out into the open but always within a foot of the cover. But as you say, its origin appears to have been cleared up anyway.

I would be interested if anyone else has thoughts regards causes of red belly markings, and if this mutation or other cause has been noted in other populations.

 

[Fow]

You might be right, though I'm not sure these pheasants (Golden and Lady A's at least) are really popular for shooting.

Hi.

Definately not popular for shooting. I have an uncle and 2 cousins who are all gamekeepers. Apparently if you have a few of the rarer breed pheasants, it causes unrest with the common ones and the rarer breeds will often end up getting bullied. Whether this happens with 'wild birds' I do not know.

Best wishes.

 

[stuart white]

Also don't they (golden & Lady A's) fly horizontally away, if at all (more likely to skulk off) hence are much harder to shoot. I thought that was one of the reasons why they stopped releasing them back in the day. Unlike the less intelligent cousin that flies vertically upwards and is much easier to shoot !

 

[Paul Eele]

Titchwell January 4th

Today's highlights

Water pipit - 3 on fresh marsh
Whooper swan - 1 by access road
Spotted redshank - 2 on fresh marsh
Shorelark - 9 west over brackish marsh
Bittern - 1 on pool by Fen Hide

Paul

 

[Paul Woolnough]

Listing game

Also don't they (golden & Lady A's) fly horizontally away, if at all (more likely to skulk off) hence are much harder to shoot. I thought that was one of the reasons why they stopped releasing them back in the day. Unlike the less intelligent cousin that flies vertically upwards and is much easier to shoot !

That is my understanding too.
I saw a melanistic common pheasant in December, in Thornham, after good views of the presumed(?) northern harrier. An example of variation.

Fabulous afternoon watching Two Red headed Smew, pair of Red breasted Mergansers, a Goosander, tons of waders at Boal Quay, King's Lynn. Wonderful views of a Drake Mandarin in 'The Walks', dipped on the LA Pheasant and ended up at Flitcham.

Best Wishes Penny:

Listing
Feel free to "tick" the mandarin for the year Penny.

Will keep a year list (or year record).
Not chasing things as much as in 2010. List will tell me what I have or haven't seen: a summary of first sightings in 2011 (only). Total will indicate whether 2011 turns out to be a good or bad year for species numbers. Of casual interest to me but of no value at all to bird conservation!

Game for it 1 January
Saw the Lady Am's at Houghton. Curious to see a male in the wild (not Pensthorpe!). Did not see a common pheasant for the year until afterwards! Had grey and red-legged partridge together later in the morning. Could not get golden pheasant at Wolferton or Sculthorpe Moor.

(Saw a female Lady Ams near Little Brickhill Beds in the 90's. Her mate would not come out and show, but hid and poked about in the brambles calling! I recall the scene now!) One on my life list and by no means the only introduced countable species.... What is a number?

2010 - 261 seen umpteen others not chased (only a few dipped). Didn't bother to twitch "late in the day reports" in 2010 so no blue-winged teal, no rosefinch and no ortolan.
There are 270 birds (plus) in Norfolk every year if you have time and unlike me am inclined to chase them all!

We are spoilt for birds in Norfolk - whilst biodiversity is in decline.

 

[firstreesjohn]

Flushed Ladies

My experience of Lady Amherst’s Pheasants is in the wild and from Sichuan, China.

On one (misty) day, we came across a dozen- either singly or as pairs- on the road at Wawu Shan.

As far as I can recall, they only flew when I got out of the car to attempt to photograph them- as they usually stalked or ran quickly away into the thick brush, either side of the road.

Two other groups from County have subsequently visited there, seeing similar or even larger numbers. It would be interesting to hear their experiences.

 

[major wildlife]

Golden Pheasant.

Image from Wolferton December 09.
If of any interest.

Major

 

[Paul Eele]

Titchwell January 5th

Today's highlights

Northern harrier - immature male over Thornham saltmarsh
Hen harrier - male over Thornham saltmarsh late afternoon
Whooper swan - 1 in field by access road
Waxwing - 3 west
Mealy redpoll - 1 in alders near visitor centre
Twite - 25 on brackish marsh

Paul