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Norfolk birding (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Edward woodwood
- Start date
Hello All,i am planning a trip over to your wonderful county this weekend and am considering going for the Golden Pheasants at Wolferton first,any tips,locations etc to try would be greatly appreciated,also what is the history of these birds and are they considered tickable ? Thankyou in advance.
Michael
Michael
James Emerson
Norwich Birder
Hi Michael.
Most of what you want to know is discussed here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=210612
Mornings are best because there has been less traffic to disturb the birds. You can either park up and hope for one to show near you, or drive slowly along the roads with Rhododendrons either side and hope to spot one. If you list by UK400 club rules you can't count these birds because of the dark throats, otherwise its personal preference.
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
I’m not sure about you, Connor, but ‘Lesser Kestrel at Wells on 7 October' initiated partial superciliary elevation.
Yes, thanks. I wished I had seen it as well as in Simon’s photos, James. Only flight views, though.
Thanks for the reply,i take it the dark throats means they are hybrids,are there any tickable birds left in the wild and were these birds ever tickable?
I have read the other thread but any further info would be appreciated.
Thankyou
Michael
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Connor Rand
Norwich resident, Holme devotee
No, not necessarily hybrids (see #14442) and whilst they are widely deemed untickable now (because, let's face it, I don't think anyone could argue they're still self-sustaining) they did used to be perfectly 'tickable'.
SW London Birder if the feather is lost including all the shaft a bird will start to regrow it within a few weeks. That will vary between species. However if the shaft is broken with the lower section still " rooted " the bird will not regrow it until the next moult.
Mark Batten
Well-known member
The cley yelkouan shearwater is missing from the work in progress list.
Dave Appleton
Well-known member
The males have shown dark throats at this location for many years and therefore belong to the mutant variation known as var. 'obscurus'. I have been interested in these birds for a while and looking hard for evidence that this mutation is in any way indicative of a hybrid origin, and I have not found any evidence of this. A Golden Pheasant x Lady Amherst's Pheasant hybrid backcrossed with Golden Pheasants will look more like a Golden Pheasant than its first generation hybrid parent. If it produces young with another Golden Pheasant the offspring will be even more like Golden Pheasant, and so on. In other words if hybridisation was the cause of the dark throats then over time I would expect the birds in the population to look increasingly pure. In contrast if the dark throats are the results of mutation in pure Golden Pheasant then, given that in-breeding is one cause of mutation, we might expect the mutant effect to increase as a small population declines. This is what appears to have happened in the Wolferton area and it's what seems to be happening in the Brecks.
As for tickability you have three choices - 1) follow BOU - they currently categorise Golden Pheasant as Cat C on the basis of self-sustaining populations in Norfolk and elsewhere (I think), so they're countable; 2) follow UK400 Club - Lee doesn't consider the Wolferton birds as countable, but that appears to be based on an incorrect (as far as I can tell) assumption that hybridisation is involved; or 3) follow common sense and treat the Wolferton birds in the same way as the Breckland birds - once they appeared to be self-sustaining and were countable but now they appear to be dying out and therefore aren't self-sustaining, and therefore aren't countable any more. Some people would say if you saw them when they were self-sustaining you can count them even if they die out, but I reckon Stu got it about right when he said...
...on the other thread. And it's not. (But I've still got it on my list).
PS: has anyone seen any females here recently?
Happisbirder
Always looking, seldom finding...
Stephen Menzie
Being English isn't about hate. It's about disgust
The colour, pattern, 'type' etc of the feather grown is controlled by differing levels of hormones and not by the moult it is grown in; though, of course, the timing of these often go hand in hand. Hormone levels change both as a bird mature—and smaller birds generally become sexually mature quicker than larger birds—and according to breeding cycle. The increasing levels of hormones as a young gull matures are what causes the change from brown to grey feathers, and thus can explain the 'mixed' and rather variable plumage. Hormone levels can also explain e.g. red Bar-tailed Godwits in winter—high hormone levels during the post-breeding moult cause the new feathers to be coloured red. The bird has not, as I used to think, 'flipped' its moult cycle nor has it retained breeding plumage. The post-breeding moult is still complete, as it should be, and the bird has therefore undergone the same moult as the 'normal looking' grey/brown birds in the flock, but higher than normal/out-of-sync hormone levels are acting independently of the moult to cause the growth of 'breeding-type' plumage.
There's a really great book that explains all of this far better than I can—Molt in North American Birds by Steve Howell. It does a superb job of explaining in the first section of the book what could potentially be quite a dry subject in a way that's interesting and understandable... and extremely useful. The second half of the book deals with each North American bird family but is still, in the majority of cases, hugely relevant to European birds and birders; and, as an added bonus for most birders, everything is looked at in an 'in the field' situation rather than in-hand. Definitely worth adding to your Christmas list if it's the sort of thing that's likely to interest you!
SueBryan
Well-known member
I'm sure Penny or Sue must've visited this year... 3
James
I have only seen 2 males on a couple of occasions this year, very near the main road early in the morning.
Sue
Hethersett birder
Well-known member
Hethersett birder
Well-known member
Nick Moran
Well-known member
Ferruginous Duck @Ranworth
With 'Christmas shopping in Norwich' as the excuse, I ducked out of home-based Christmas duties for a bit of Broads-based twitching this morning. The Great Northern Diver was at Ormesby Broad, on the most distant bit of the broad visible from the A149 (viewed from across the road from the gateway into the parking area).
Went on to Ranworth, in the faint hope of catching up with the Ring-necked Duck reported earlier in the week. No joy but a female Ferruginous Duck was good compensation. I'm aware of the hybrids that are in the area (though I'd managed to miss the news about the bird @Cockshoot); with that in mind, I scrutinised this bird as best I could (given the sub-zero temperature and it's extremely furtive behaviour). Without regurgitating all my (shaky!) field notes, it appeared identical in size to 4 Tufted Ducks that briefly fed in the same area (it spent most of its time alone, diving under overhanging vegetation) and the head & bill structure looked spot-on for Ferruginous. The bill pattern looked fine for (female) Ferruginous too: charcoal grey, slightly paler diffuse grey band towards the tip and a black tip (which was slightly more extensive than I expected but in hindsight, fine for female - I'd forgotten that its males that have the really small black nail).
Not sure about the BGs report of a male at the same site early afternoon; the bird I saw had a fairly glossy head (which duped me to start with) but the eye was too dull for male and the rest of the plumage not quite bright enough.
Would be interested to hear from anyone else who has seen this bird. I've looked at Dave Appleton's pics of the Cockshoot bird from last month; I didn't see the Ranworth bird adopt the 'Redhead-like' look that the Cockshoot bird seems to show in the lower 4 images, nor did the bill ever look as deep-based (and 'Pochardy') as it does in Dave's lower 2 images... though I realise that there's a high likelihood its the same bird!
Is the Cockshoot female under question in terms of purity?
Cheers
Nick
With 'Christmas shopping in Norwich' as the excuse, I ducked out of home-based Christmas duties for a bit of Broads-based twitching this morning. The Great Northern Diver was at Ormesby Broad, on the most distant bit of the broad visible from the A149 (viewed from across the road from the gateway into the parking area).
Went on to Ranworth, in the faint hope of catching up with the Ring-necked Duck reported earlier in the week. No joy but a female Ferruginous Duck was good compensation. I'm aware of the hybrids that are in the area (though I'd managed to miss the news about the bird @Cockshoot); with that in mind, I scrutinised this bird as best I could (given the sub-zero temperature and it's extremely furtive behaviour). Without regurgitating all my (shaky!) field notes, it appeared identical in size to 4 Tufted Ducks that briefly fed in the same area (it spent most of its time alone, diving under overhanging vegetation) and the head & bill structure looked spot-on for Ferruginous. The bill pattern looked fine for (female) Ferruginous too: charcoal grey, slightly paler diffuse grey band towards the tip and a black tip (which was slightly more extensive than I expected but in hindsight, fine for female - I'd forgotten that its males that have the really small black nail).
Not sure about the BGs report of a male at the same site early afternoon; the bird I saw had a fairly glossy head (which duped me to start with) but the eye was too dull for male and the rest of the plumage not quite bright enough.
Would be interested to hear from anyone else who has seen this bird. I've looked at Dave Appleton's pics of the Cockshoot bird from last month; I didn't see the Ranworth bird adopt the 'Redhead-like' look that the Cockshoot bird seems to show in the lower 4 images, nor did the bill ever look as deep-based (and 'Pochardy') as it does in Dave's lower 2 images... though I realise that there's a high likelihood its the same bird!
Is the Cockshoot female under question in terms of purity?
Cheers
Nick
If i see one i'm tickin it,thanks for the info.
Connor Rand
Norwich resident, Holme devotee
Hi Nick,
discussed in depth here http://www.surfbirds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8120&highlight=Cockshoot
All the best
firstreesjohn
Well-known member
Tidal catastrophe in 2012 for Norfolk
I have just bought next year’s tide tables. The ones I’ve had for the last few years will no longer be produced.
These I have to make do with are neither so easy on the eye, nor user-friendly- especially as regards height of the tide.
The old one is on the left (in the attached Word.doc); the new one, the right.
I have just bought next year’s tide tables. The ones I’ve had for the last few years will no longer be produced.
These I have to make do with are neither so easy on the eye, nor user-friendly- especially as regards height of the tide.
The old one is on the left (in the attached Word.doc); the new one, the right.
