Olfactory sense in birds....? (2 Viewers)

[Andy Hurley]

Think it's been proven already .. Enjoy.


And they're called tubenoses for the olfactory processes visible on their bills ...

I thought tubenoses sectreted excess salt from the tubes ..ie Fulmars

 

[fugl]

I thought tubenoses sectreted excess salt from the tubes ..ie Fulmars

This from HBW Alive--
" (The) "tubenose" seems to be related to a marked development of the sense of smell, which is probably used in the location of food, and birds may be able to detect food some way off at sea, by picking up the scent on the wind. This ability to smell is also used by a bird for locating its own particular nesting burrow within the colony even in complete darkness".

 

[chris butterworth]

I think if you were to look at the processing power of invertebrate smell sense centres you would find it a lot smaller again - and yet they use chemical (smell) cues to a high degree!

I can see (smell?) that line of research as being possibly flawed.

Good point Dan. Emperor Moths are a classic case, aren't they? The problem comes when you compare inverts to verts. While the structures in the olfactory systems of birds and mammals only different in the amount / percentage of each part the senses in invertebrates, being linked to ganglia and not a brain per se are not strictly transferable. The antennae of a male moth receive the female pheromone but is it smell, taste, an innate recognition of molecular shape hard wired to ignite a set of autonomic responses? We use analogies for many of the behaviours of invertebrates only because it makes it easier to understand, but it's really verging on the anthropomorphic. As for the size of a male moths 'processing centre', there's not much more than "find a mate and mate" to handle.

Chris

 

[chris butterworth]

I thought tubenoses sectreted excess salt from the tubes ..ie Fulmars

Dual purpose Andy. The salt glands are situated just in front of the eyes, and are greatly developed in birds such as Fulmars, Storm-Petrels etc ( it's one reason why the whole group has such distinctively shaped heads ) and open into the nostrils. Cormorant, Gannet etc also have highly developed salt glands but, having no external nostrils, he saline solution runs down the inside of the upper mandible and drips off the tip.

Chris

 

[chris butterworth]

Years ago...between mid-March and circa the first week in May, I used to ''bird'' the KGV group of reservoirs (N.E. London), two huge concrete banked stretches of water divided by a causeway, in total perhaps c2 miles long, at both ends horses grazed. Although odd birds could be found along the grassy banks, concentrations of 1-9 would be more likely found in the respective horse fields, and be seen to take invertebrates in, and or around the horse dung. Hoping..this might just, put my back garden incident into perspective?

How long was the vegetation in the horse paddocks compared to the vegetationon the causeway? The length of the grass could be of more 'importance' in food gathering, safety and ease of movement than the absence, or presence of dung.

Chris

 

[KenM]

How long was the vegetation in the horse paddocks compared to the vegetationon the causeway? The length of the grass could be of more 'importance' in food gathering, safety and ease of movement than the absence, or presence of dung.

Chris

The reservoir banks were grazed by sheep in the Spring..thus...grass height comparable to the horse grazed areas.

However the ''arrangement/clutter'' with the immediacy of houses, garages, drives, fences, shrub pots, trees, and abutting block of flats did not lend itself to an ''open range'' Northern Wheatear friendly environment.

However!...that 2' wide ''L'' shaped strip, laden with ''fresh'' horse manure, and abutted with all manner of man made obstacles, certainly held it for a long pit-stop!

It is my contention (although I can't prove it!), that it was too much of a co-incidence for a Wheatear to locate such a small area of pungent ''food source'' with no ''visual markers,'' whilst flying over such an ''alien'' habitat, without using some other sensory aid.

 

[pianoman]

In a field on my local patch containing horses, wheatears perch on the piles of dung themselves, snapping at flies that are attracted to it. I think they must seek out the manure. And maybe, like some other species, they're attracted to disturbed ground generally in the hopes of turning up some soil insects.

 

[chris butterworth]

Sticking to Wheatears, on their breeding grounds - as well as on migration - it's common to see them perched on rocks, old machinery or tideline debris, as well as horse dung. The one thing they all have in common is they provide a raised vantage point. That dung, and tideline debris also provides a plentiful supply of insects is, IMO, a bonus. Migrating birds do turn up in places where you wouldn't expect to be, I've seen Wheatear in Regents Park and Golden Plover are often reported roosting on playing fields in Liverpool. I think we should look at the 'normal' behaviour of species to explain the odd anomaly first though. Still a great garden tick, Ken.

Chris

 

[KenM]

Sticking to Wheatears, on their breeding grounds - as well as on migration - it's common to see them perched on rocks, old machinery or tideline debris, as well as horse dung. The one thing they all have in common is they provide a raised vantage point. That dung, and tideline debris also provides a plentiful supply of insects is, IMO, a bonus. Migrating birds do turn up in places where you wouldn't expect to be, I've seen Wheatear in Regents Park and Golden Plover are often reported roosting on playing fields in Liverpool. I think we should look at the 'normal' behaviour of species to explain the odd anomaly first though. Still a great garden tick, Ken.

Chris

Chris...I'm particularly aware of Warbler species regularly pit-stopping ''small'' areas of cover in central London, some areas being less than 80 sq m, and being ''canyoned'' by tall buildings. However....these areas have cover which they recognise and consequently drop into for feeding purposes, whilst migrating over sterile urban centres.

My situation was somewhat different...had my very small vegetable strip not been freshly manured...In my opinion...Wheatear would not have occured .

During Spring last year, in a small central London churchyard, where the rose garden was freshly mulched, Blackcaps and Chiff Chaff foraged the ground on successive days.

This year..no mulching..no warblers!

Once more I can't prove it, but I believe the olfactory sense in birding groups, is probably more acute than us mere humans presently understand.

 

[MJB]

There's really no other way to explain the fact that many birds, e.g. Storm-petrels, generally ignore boats until they start to chum or drip fish oil. Best, Jim

Many years ago, when diesel-powered submarines were still a major threat, millions were spent in developing a 'sniffer' to be fitted out to anti-submarine aircraft, so that even when submerged just below the surface, sufficient particulates could be detected to track the submarine's course. The system seemed have good results on trials, but by summer in the Mediterranean, all it could pick up was olive harvest fumes! I guess tubenoses can distinguish between natural and artificial sources.... or could this be a factor in the decline of some species?
MJB

 

[LabradorDuck]

My situation was somewhat different...had my very small vegetable strip not been freshly manured...In my opinion...Wheatear would not have occured .

During Spring last year, in a small central London churchyard, where the rose garden was freshly mulched, Blackcaps and Chiff Chaff foraged the ground on successive days.

This year..no mulching..no warblers!

It could also be that they spotted concentrations if flying insects from some distance.

Are Wheatears typically found in association with large mammals? It seems like being attracted to the scent of dung would be a potential adaptation for such a lifestyle, though *large* mammals in the open might be visible to a bird with good eyesight from a great enough distance that olfaction weaker than a Turkey Vulture's would be rendered superfluous. I wonder if anyone has studied reaction to manure smell by Brown-headed Cowbirds or other such passerines that hang around large mammals.

 

[pianoman]

I still think that many birds could distinguish between manure, leaf-litter, mulch, disturbed soil etc by sight from quite a long way away. Unvegetated ground (other than sand) is a relatively rare thing in nature because if something can grow in it, it very soon will. So brown ground is worth investigating anyway.

 

[LabradorDuck]

I find it interesting that we have an example of a bird with prodigious olfactory abilities (Turkey Vulture) and a not-too-distant relative (Harris Hawk) that doesn't even react to the smell of a food source. I wonder about the abilities of their common ancestor. Is there any research on Old World Vultures?

 

[fugl]

I find it interesting that we have an example of a bird with prodigious olfactory abilities (Turkey Vulture) and a not-too-distant relative (Harris Hawk) that doesn't even react to the smell of a food source.

Pretty distant actually, the New World Vultures generally being considered a very distinct taxon not closely related to other birds of prey (or to anything else for that matter, now that they're no longer thought to be storks).

 

[Jim M.]

I find it interesting that we have an example of a bird with prodigious olfactory abilities (Turkey Vulture) and a not-too-distant relative (Harris Hawk) that doesn't even react to the smell of a food source. I wonder about the abilities of their common ancestor. Is there any research on Old World Vultures?

Actually there's an even starker contrast. (New World) Black Vultures actually have a poor sense of smell and cannot find carrion by smell alone. They look for Turkey Vultures to lead them to the goodies.

Best,
Jim

 

[KenM]

I still think that many birds could distinguish between manure, leaf-litter, mulch, disturbed soil etc by sight from quite a long way away. Unvegetated ground (other than sand) is a relatively rare thing in nature because if something can grow in it, it very soon will. So brown ground is worth investigating anyway.

Agreed.....but if you try and imagine an obscured (by tree canopy and a visual obstacle course of man made "clutter" not to mention an almost adjacent forest and houses/flats etc. It becomes the most unlikely"pit-stop" for what is essentially a bird of wide open spaces....I believe the sense of smell played a part in this occurrence.

 

[Fozzybear]

A short essay that might interest some of you:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Avian_Sense.html

And something else to consider, as smell might not be as important to Birds as we might think:

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/biology/research/behaviour/vision/4d.html

All goes way over my head of course

Very interesting! Thanks for posting those Chris.

 

[MJB]

Very interesting! Thanks for posting those Chris.

There's an extensive ornithological pull-out in New Scientist this week, by Tim Birkhead, and he covers olfactory matters!

There's also a photospot about the 'falcon hospital' in Dubai, which it is claimed has 250 rooms and treats 7000 birds each year. Instead of spending that kind of money on falcon protection, it would seem to me that this facility helps drive the illegal falcon trade. Mind you, if they restore injured birds to health, at least they are not replaced immediately....
MJB