Pine Marten not so cute after all! (1 Viewer)

[amelia1730]

I have been wanting to see Pine Marten for ages and there is a possibility I might go to Scotland for a short holiday this year so have been getting very excited at the prospect of seeing these little cuties! Visions of 'baiting' them with hens eggs and jam sandwiches to get a clear view - all very lovely...........

But today I was reading a bit about them and have had this cute notion wiped from my mind........... I always imagined that they ate small mammals, birds and birds eggs etc but have discovered they are very efficient squirrel hunters, chasing them through the trees before catching them, taking them down onto the ground and finally killing them. I found it quite shocking. A bit like the scenes of chimpanzee hunting monkeys I've seen on TV - quite upsetting to watch. I don't think I want to read any more about them!!

 

[HH75]

But today I was reading a bit about them and have had this cute notion wiped from my mind........... I always imagined that they ate small mammals, birds and birds eggs etc but have discovered they are very efficient squirrel hunters, chasing them through the trees before catching them, taking them down onto the ground and finally killing them. I found it quite shocking. A bit like the scenes of chimpanzee hunting monkeys I've seen on TV - quite upsetting to watch. I don't think I want to read any more about them!!

So it's cute for them to take birds and eggs, but not Squirrel Nutkin (at least, were one to look at things that way, the squirrels have a fighting chance of escaping, which is more than an egg can)...?

 

[Daniel Martin]

If we had Pine Marten back over more of its previous range we woudnt have the issues that Grey Squirrels cause now - I lost 4 nests in my garden last spring of various species to the dreaded tree rat........and some of the chicks just had their heads chewed off and were then left on my lawn.
Give me some reasonable predators any day to keep em in check. Polecats, Pine Martens.....bring em on!

 

[Atricapilla]

The squirrels and Pine martens both of which are quite common here seem to live together quite well going by the numbers seen in the local area,natures balance I suppose.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I admire pine martens. Beautiful creatures, but I don't think that "cute" is a word that sits well with any mustelid, even the disneyfied current favourites badgers and otters.

 

[Atricapilla]

Just found this article,sounds like good news to me.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/166233.html

 

[amelia1730]

You're right Alan, that was a ridiculous word to use. Of course it's not cute for them to take birds and their eggs, Harry, but it is what I expected them to do. I was just a bit shocked/surprised at the way in which they hunt squirrels, which is naive I know. I'm sure there are many people who would be happy for them to kill grey squirrels but not the cutesy red ones

Interesting that the two species can live happily side by side - perhaps it's the "not on your doorstep" thing. I've seen foxes walk past rabbits near me to hunt a bit further away - "save them for a rainy day" mentality.

 

[mcapper]

Pine Martin will take red squirrel but as the reds are very small and light, they can go right to outermost thin branches where the pine martin's can't follow. The grey squirrel is heavier and can't go where the red's can - thus making it easier prey for a pine martin. There is a theory that if we have more pine martins, we will help solve the grey squirrel problem.

If that is the case, come on you pine martins as far as I am concerned!

 

[RecoveringScot]

I always imagined that they ate small mammals, birds and birds eggs etc but have discovered they are very efficient squirrel hunters, chasing them through the trees before catching them, taking them down onto the ground and finally killing them.

I've seen one of these chases, at Loch of the Lowes, Perthshire about thirty years ago, It was incredibly fast up and down the trunks of several trees, but owing to the spring foliage I did not see the outcome. It was about one hundred yards from the Osprey nest as I remember.

Not to be forgotten easily, and I've never been as lucky again.

Cheers,

 

[Brosnabirder]

Just want to echo Bob's comments above. In Ireland Pine Martens are commonest west of the River Shannon as are Red Squirrels. They both occur elsewhere in Ireland of course but at lower densities. In any case isn't it true that Pine Martens need quite large territories in comparison to Red Squirrels so probably don't pose that much of a threat to their continued existence as a species. Unfortunately in Ireland Martens are tarred with the same brush as Mink and a certain amount of persecution takes place. On a lighter note some people still believe Martens posess a spike on their tail to kill sheep and lambs with Are there any similar beliefs in the UK?

 

[Farnboro John]

Pine Martens hunt most of their mammal prey on the ground. Studies in Britain and abroad have shown that Red Squirrels form only a very small part of their diet and for all their spectacular nature, wild chases through the trees are the exception rather than the rule.

Squirrel Nutkin as a species remains more at risk from its fellow rodent than its predators.

John

 

[Farnboro John]

On a lighter note some people still believe Martens posess a spike on their tail to kill sheep and lambs with Are there any similar beliefs in the UK?

Yes, some people believe farmers and other major landowners know what's best for the countryside!

John

 

[Brosnabirder]

In case anyone thinks I'm the crackpot a friend of mine was recently told in no uncertain terms at an Irish Farmers Association meeting that Martens had killed sheep with a spiked tail. I'd heard of the belief before but only in a historical context. I was amazed that someone in this day and age still believed it. The farmer could have been joking of course but my friend didn't think so. Despite this and the persecution which it may lead to Pine Martens are growing in numbers I believe. Having never seen one before 2005 I've had 3 sightings in Co. Tipperary since then. Its not usually seen as a core area.

By the way John I greatly enjoyed reading about your Mammal listing last year. Did you ever catch up with a Pine Marten? Apologies if I'm hijacking this thread.

Tom

 

[Nick-on]

Yes, some people believe farmers and other major landowners know what's best for the countryside!

John

Beat me to it! In a similar vein I was going to suggest that some people think that there are some gamekeepers who don't kill birds of prey (must be the fairies that do it).

Would love to see a Pine Marten again, only ever seen one and that was for about 20 seconds in the middle of a wood near Plockton about 20 years ago. Don't want to to one of the organised watches, bit too zoolike for me (not that I'm criticising anyone who does, just not my 'thing').

Nick

 

[Brosnabirder]

Beat me to it! In a similar vein I was going to suggest that some people think that there are some gamekeepers who don't kill birds of prey (must be the fairies that do it).

Would love to see a Pine Marten again, only ever seen one and that was for about 20 seconds in the middle of a wood near Plockton about 20 years ago. Don't want to to one of the organised watches, bit too zoolike for me (not that I'm criticising anyone who does, just not my 'thing').

Nick

Come to Ireland!
Having said that none of my sightings were planned. If its possible to plan such a thing outside of those organised watches. Just happened upon them crossing roads. I do a lot of driving about. Lucky I know. Gorgeous animals. How people confuse them with mink I'll never know.

 

[Mike Richardson]

Unfortunately, unless your very lucky, the only realistic way of seeing wild Pine Marten is at an organised watch or 2 seconds in the car headights.
I've only ever seen one alive and that was from the Speyside Hide. I would love to see them eating up all the Grey Squirrels in the UK.

 

[Brosnabirder]

I checked out my earlier post [#13 above] and it turns out that I am in fact from an area that is now in the core range of Pine Marten in Ireland ; north-west County Tipperary. See www.coford.ie/iopen24/pub/pub/COFORD-Connects/PineMarten.pdf for a distribution map. So my advice for seeing one is to live in an area where they are found

 

[Sancho]

At a lecture in the Glendalough centre last year, the guy said that in the north (Irish) midlands, grey squirrels seem to be on the decline (Way-hay!). One theory is that Pine Martens may be returning to previous haunts there and predating them. I don't think this was presented as concrete fact, just a theory, but it would be nice. On the topic of Pine Martens eating eggs, etc., hey, they're carnivores. It ain't pretty but it's the Great Circle of Life, Simba! (Darn, that song's in my head now...)

 

[Sancho]

At a lecture in the Glendalough centre last year, the guy said that in the north (Irish) midlands, grey squirrels seem to be on the decline (Way-hay!). One theory is that Pine Martens may be returning to previous haunts there and predating them. I don't think this was presented as concrete fact, just a theory, but it would be nice. On the topic of Pine Martens eating eggs, etc., hey, like us, they're carnivores. It ain't pretty but it's the Great Circle of Life, Simba! (Darn, that song's in my head now...)

 

[Brosnabirder]

At a lecture in the Glendalough centre last year, the guy said that in the north (Irish) midlands, grey squirrels seem to be on the decline (Way-hay!). One theory is that Pine Martens may be returning to previous haunts there and predating them. I don't think this was presented as concrete fact, just a theory, but it would be nice. On the topic of Pine Martens eating eggs, etc., hey, like us, they're carnivores. It ain't pretty but it's the Great Circle of Life, Simba! (Darn, that song's in my head now...)

Circle of Life
Good news about the Greys declining. I'd hazard a guess [not scientific fact either] that they take far more eggs than martens anyway given their ability to survive in small woods and gardens etc. Anybody know anything about this?
P.S. A friend found a roadkill Pine Marten in the suburbs of Portlaoise last year. Quite a large town. I'd guess the current distribution maps only show a minimum range.