Farnboro John
Well-known member
Lapland Bunting will always be a Lapland Bunting in my eyes.
Likewise Bearded Tit :t:
John
Lapland Bunting will always be a Lapland Bunting in my eyes.
Problem with Aggressive Hawk is that it either implies all other hawks are peaceful, or implies that Cooper's is especially aggressive. Goshawk is far far more aggressive stateside than Cooper's. Also aggressive is such a generic word that in conversation it might be difficult if someone is referring to the behavior of a given hawk or the species. If I am attacked by an aggressive hawk, does that mean I was attacked by an Aggressive Hawk, or just a territorial bird of another species? It's like naming a gull Large Gull...okay, do you mean it was a gull that was big, or that it was the specific species Large Gull?
Yes, you need to know very little about Aztec culture to see that Montezuma may be a worse choice than Benjamin Franklin.I looked up Montezuma. During the Flower Wars tried to get as many people for human sacrifice as he could (wikipedia).
This is definitely an influencing factor, without any doubt at all, let the science do the naming, not politics and not public opinion.
Without wishing to be offensive, what these latecomers to birding are doing, is akin to a Brit, arriving in America and changing all the rules to Ice Hockey. Birding has already become politicised recently, I hope it's a trend that dies, very quickly.
Problem with Aggressive Hawk is that it either implies all other hawks are peaceful, or implies that Cooper's is especially aggressive. Goshawk is far far more aggressive stateside than Cooper's. Also aggressive is such a generic word that in conversation it might be difficult if someone is referring to the behavior of a given hawk or the species. If I am attacked by an aggressive hawk, does that mean I was attacked by an Aggressive Hawk, or just a territorial bird of another species? It's like naming a gull Large Gull...okay, do you mean it was a gull that was big, or that it was the specific species Large Gull?
Don’t come here spoiling things with your factsWhy would China make us rename our sparrows?
P.S. our sparrows are not buntings either...the family was split a few years ago.
All hawks are aggressive, shouldn't it be renamed "the slightly-more-aggressive-than-usual hawk' Jan?:king:
What a dreadful and unimaginative set of suggested names. If you must rename Ross's gull, then why call it pink-hued gull when the name rosy gull would capture that feature in much more euphonious way and would also recall the original name. Similarly, the natural new name for Cooper's hawk should surely be blunt-shinned hawk, comical though the suggestion of aggressive hawk is.
More seriously if you want to get away from names that commemorate Dead Western European Males and the attitudes and history they imply (and there certainly seems to be a case for renaming McCown's longspur at least on that basis) then do it properly. Instead of arbitrarily choosing a new name for its bland correctness, go back to names used by the First Nation Americans and Canadians and use these as the basis of the new names. By nature this would need to be a long process involving a lot of consultation but that's inevitable if you want a credible set of names that birders might actually adopt.
I very much doubt that the Black-lives-matter campaign is a significant factor here. The BLM movement started in 2013 but people have been dropping (or proposing the dropping of) eponymous bird names for decades (or longer). The primary consideration seems to be the desire for bird names to reflect an aspect of the bird rather than the people who found/named them more than a matter of post-colonial sensitivities (which is the other relevant factor, something perhaps allied to the BLM movement but quite distinct from it). Given the usual glacial slowness of changing colloquial names I suspect this process by which these names were arrived at likely go back to well before the BLM movement had a significant profile (and certainly nothing like the current one). About a fifth of the suggested c100 changes relate to "descriptive" names no longer regarded as being useful or accurate (e.g. Canada Warbler).
As for the name changes themselves many I find not in the least objectionable per se and, everything being equal, would much prefer a few names (e.g."Kinglet Vireo vs Hutton's). However, "Whimbrel Curlew", "Pink-Hued Gull" and "Mediterranean Shearwater" are absurd whilst changing Forster's Tern to "Marsh Tern" invites confusion with 'proper' Marsh Terns. The changes are also inconsistent retaining, for example, the name 'sparrow' and 'vulture'. Changing the latter to, say 'Turkey-Vulture' would at least allow us to revert to 'Black' Vulture for what many now call Cinereous or Monk Vulture.
However, everything isn't equal and the names we have are sanctified by use, familiar and remind us of pioneering naturalists who largely have no other monument and, with few exceptions (if any), were people of good character and reputation the commemoration of whom is unlikely to cause disquiet.
I have argued for a long time against naming things after things named after something - the classic example being the "Piece Race Bridge" in Prague, named after a race that honored peace (let's put aside for a moment the quality of such honor by a 80's east bloc event), which is redundant and the "Peace Bridge" would be more logical.
Now the Dead Sea does not actually commemorate death, as it is more of a description of the properties of the sea, so I am not sure, if I can raise the same objection against Dead Sea Sparrow, but Dead Sparrow sounds too funny as a species name not to at least try!
EDIT:
Seeing this brilliant argument, I am also willing to settle for Slighty-more-dead-than-usual Sparrow.
3 Indeed, I like your train of thought.
Some English names are crap I must admit - Hen Harrier - WFT is that all about? Maybe we could call it Persecuted Harrier?
Given the usual glacial slowness of changing colloquial names I suspect this process by which these names were arrived at likely go back to well before the BLM movement had a significant profile (and certainly nothing like the current one). About a fifth of the suggested c100 changes relate to "descriptive" names no longer regarded as being useful or accurate (e.g. Canada Warbler).
As for the name changes themselves many I find not in the least objectionable per se and, everything being equal, would much prefer a few names (e.g."Kinglet Vireo vs Hutton's). However, "Whimbrel Curlew", "Pink-Hued Gull" and "Mediterranean Shearwater" are absurd whilst changing Forster's Tern to "Marsh Tern" invites confusion with 'proper' Marsh Terns. The changes are also inconsistent retaining, for example, the name 'sparrow' and 'vulture'. Changing the latter to, say 'Turkey-Vulture' would at least allow us to revert to 'Black' Vulture for what many now call Cinereous or Monk Vulture.
More seriously if you want to get away from names that commemorate Dead Western European Males and the attitudes and history they imply (and there certainly seems to be a case for renaming McCown's longspur at least on that basis) then do it properly. Instead of arbitrarily choosing a new name for its bland correctness, go back to names used by the First Nation Americans and Canadians and use these as the basis of the new names. By nature this would need to be a long process involving a lot of consultation but that's inevitable if you want a credible set of names that birders might actually adopt.
All harriers are called "chicken thieves" in Dutch: just a few steps to "hen harrier" from there!Some English names are crap I must admit - Hen Harrier - WFT is that all about?
On another note, I actually quite like “Ubiquitous Storm-petrel”. Just wish it was a bit more ubiquitous in Britain, particularly inland Britain. After all, if you can get a Great Shearwater in Milton Keynes...