Review: ZEN Prime HD (1 Viewer)

[Scandi]

Thanks, Steve.

Info much appreciated. :t:

/Scandi

 

[idaho john]

and...

I am looking forward to trying one of the production models in the future. I know that this has been covered in another thread, but it will or would be nice to see an 8x32 Prime at some point.

But in saying that, I suspect that the work it takes (designing and engineering)...and the outlay of capital to bring a quality product to market may preclude that x32 model from showing up for a few years. But this does not mean I don't want one, it only means that I understand if we don't get one.

And in the realm of pure binocular fantasy, would it not be wonderful to have an 8x32, waterproof, high quality glass, dielectric coated, adjustable diopter, not made by Nikon, Zen Ray porro prism?

I am going to go and watch a John Wayne western now, something a little more realistic and within my grasp than a dream porro prism binocular!

Looking for your continued success Charles!

John

 

[Alexis Powell]

Too bad about the focus direction. A bigger concern for me is the focus ratio and focus performance in the cold--what is it like in these? To me, those are critical aspects of design, regardless of optical quality (It is right up there in importance alongside being able to point the binocular at the object of interest), yet commonly ignored except by the alpha brands/models. For me, a binocular is no good for birding if it has difficulty being brought into focus quickly, precisely, and reasonably smoothly.

What is close focus, and how many revolutions are there from close focus to infinity? How does the focus feel after a night in the refrigerator, and after a night in the freezer?

I'm happy to see this effort at a flat field roof. That is a category that only Nikon and Swarovski seem to take seriously, and which I have long awaited the return/optimization of since enjoying my first premium roof, the Nikon 8x40 Classic Eagle (which stood out for its flat field and thus overall optical superiority despite its lower cost in comparison to the in all other respects similar Zeiss and Leica offerings in those days before phase correction coatings).

One disappointment: the 56 mm minimum IPD. It would be nice for Zeiss to have some competition in the <56mm realm. The population of adults with narrow IPD must constitute a small and mostly female market, but so far Zeiss is alone in serving it when it comes to mid and full-sized roofs.

--AP

 

[NWBirder]

I have used binoculars focusing in either direction. I don't find myself favoring one particular direction over the other. I do like my ED2 7x36 better than 10x42 ZRS HD, only because of the optics.

 

[Steve C]

Too bad about the focus direction. A bigger concern for me is the focus ratio and focus performance in the cold--what is it like in these? To me, those are critical aspects of design, regardless of optical quality (It is right up there in importance alongside being able to point the binocular at the object of interest), yet commonly ignored except by the alpha brands/models. For me, a binocular is no good for birding if it has difficulty being brought into focus quickly, precisely, and reasonably smoothly.

What is close focus, and how many revolutions are there from close focus to infinity? How does the focus feel after a night in the refrigerator, and after a night in the freezer?

I'm happy to see this effort at a flat field roof. That is a category that only Nikon and Swarovski seem to take seriously, and which I have long awaited the return/optimization of since enjoying my first premium roof, the Nikon 8x40 Classic Eagle (which stood out for its flat field and thus overall optical superiority despite its lower cost in comparison to the in all other respects similar Zeiss and Leica offerings in those days before phase correction coatings).

One disappointment: the 56 mm minimum IPD. It would be nice for Zeiss to have some competition in the <56mm realm. The population of adults with narrow IPD must constitute a small and mostly female market, but so far Zeiss is alone in serving it when it comes to mid and full-sized roofs.

--AP

Ther 10x close focuses to 5 feet, I can just about focus on the tip of my boot standing up. From close focus to 100 feet is about one half turn. There is about one half turn from there to infinity and about one half turn past infinity.

The all night in the refirigerator does not seem to measurably effect focus effort. I doubt cold weather focus will be much of an issue here. This is a really nice focus and a real improvement for ZR.

The large oculars will be the limiting factor in IPD. When they are set at the minimum, there is about 5mm or so clearance between the eye cups. Takes a pretty thin nose to fit between there.

 

[Alexis Powell]

That's excellent news about the close focus and ratio--appears to be similar to the Zeiss FL, which is fast but not (for most users) too fast.

Excellent news about the cold condition focus. If the Chinese can accomplish this in this model, maybe there is hope for it to someday be accomplished routinely in roofs that cost less than $700.

I'd rather IPD be limited by the oculars or objectives touching, not the hinge design. Sure, they wouldn't serve everyone, but there are plenty of men, women and kids with button noses who can make use of bins that have no room between the oculars at minimum setting. In fact, I'd guess that the folks who have very narrow IPD are also the least likely to be troubled by lack of nose room.

--AP

 

[Stet]

I had the chance to stop by FrankD’s last weekend and take a gander through the beta Primes he has and I came away very pleased. The stand out thing for me was the super relaxed view, especially for a roof. This has become an important viewing parameter for me and I felt I could look through them all day long. They also have great ergonomics and are a very well balanced bin for me. They just have a great feel in my hands. I took a walk with them and they felt like my favorite bins I’ve been using for years. I couldn’t keep myself from smiling every time I looked through them. The only thing that felt a little funny was the larger oculars when I put them up to my eyes, but it didn’t bother me, it just felt different than I’m used to. If I was to be very nitpicky, I was hoping to get the wow factor I got when first looking through the Nikon SE’s and it didn’t materialize in the short time I had with the bins. The wow factor being the SE’s insane ability to resolve super fine detail for my eyes at least. I guess my expectations of getting a Swarovision at the $500 price range in a roof is a bit unrealistic. Although I feel my Nikon HG’s came close for the $700 I paid for them used, but alas they were too heavy for me at 36 oz. That being said, the Primes are no slouch when it comes to sharpness and I hope no one misinterprets this into thinking that the Primes are soft because they are quite the opposite. They offer up the same super sharp image that I found looked pretty similar to the sharpness of my 7x43 ED3’s, which, by the way, upon getting the 7x43 ED3’s, is when I decided to sell my SE’s and HG’s. Primarily because the 7x43 ED3’s offered up an image so close to the Nikons that I was able to finally let the Nikons go because they didn’t agree with me one way or another and I still had the stellar image quality I wanted. For me, personally, I preferred the Primes over the ED3’s and I think I may be selling my 7x43 ED3’s. Needless to say these are just my initial impressions from my little time looking through them and I thought I would add a third perspective into the mix. I am looking forward to July when my own Primes come in and I can get to spend some real time with them birding.

 

[BruceH]

John ... Thanks for posting your impressions. The consistency of all three reviews bodes well for the Prime HD.

As far as the lack of a wow factor, I was wondering if it may have been due to the viewing conditions. Did you happen to do any comparisions with another binocular at the same time that did give a wow factor? I did some brief viewing yesterday afternoon with a Zeiss FL, a Nikon EDG and a Bushnell Elite, all capable of a view that will blow you away under the right conditions. I could tell with the naked eye before starting that things where going to be less than spectacular due to "stuff" in the air, the high sun and heat waves. There was no wow factor, but it was not due to the binoculars. The conditions were just not there. Based on the details posted so far, it sounds to me like the Prime HD has the optical qualities to provide a wow view under the right condtions. Maybe it was just one of those days not suited for a spectacular view?

 

[FrankD]

Bruce,

I think I can answer the questions for John. The pics below should answer both of your questions.

 

[FrankD]

.....and he viewing conditions....

 

[BruceH]

Frank ... You definitely answered the first question. What's the prize for the first person to identify all the binoculars in the photo? I see the Prime, I think a second ZR, and the Sightron, but you lost me on the porros.

So, did any of those binoculars in the vast selection shown provide a wow factor for you or John yesterday?

 

[Steve C]

Of all the individually defined, subjective things we as users of optics apply to our optics is kind of an experience . When I see "wow factor" I think "wow" there that is again. I wonder what this user means by it. Another thing I wonder at a little bit is "blown away". Speaking only for myself here...my "wow factor" these days comes mainly in the form of "...wow look how good these things are for less than $..." I personally have gotten to the point where it seems any of the alphas have lost their wow as far as I'm concerned. The last real "WOW" I had was in 1988 when Leitz had morphed into Leica and the Leica Trinovid showed up. I had the chance to look at a Trinovid 8x32 and W:eek!:W. Kind of the same thing when I got a look at the first phase corrected Zeiss. I was not nearly into optics back then as I am now, and really did not see much need to upgrade anything. By the time I did, Pentax had the DCF WP with phase correction for less than half a Leica and I was wow look how good these Pentax are. I freely admit to being more than a little averse to spending alpha level $$ even if I had the cash in the bank .

These days the upper echelon of the mid price glass has gotten so good that I have to look pretty critically to pick out the differences that do exist in favor of the alpha class glass. However, the alphas sure do not "blow away" things like they did (at least not to me) when phase correction was a technically difficult and operationally demanding task, at least not as far as I'm concerned. One of the things I enjoy is handing a Zen Ray or a Theron or a Kruger to a somebody who says "what sort of a binocular is that" and watch their reactions when they find out it is indeed less than $500.

Not picking on anybody here, it is just that all of the subjective user defined issues that keep popping up are interesting.

 

[stereotruckdriver]

When i say blow away i'm refering to "look how da-- good these are for how much"!!!??? Now that blows me away, i'am hoping and truly believe with what you guys have posted so far that the Primes will do that for me as well as others! Bryce...

 

[Stet]

Bruce, for me Frank's Vixen Foresta 7x50 had the fine details that encompass the wow factor for me. Its view is very reminisce of the SE's. For me the wow factor is the abilitly to resolve fine detail at a distance. My 60 year old Canon porros also do this very well.

 

[Steve C]

When i say blow away i'm refering to "look how da-- good these are for how much"!!!??? Now that blows me away, ...! Bryce...

:t: Me too!

Now I like my vintage porros, don't get me wrong. However, none of them give me the "wow" of the ZEN 7x36 much less the 7x43. The older porros are mostly left in the rearview mirror. Save the Swift Audubon (to some extent the Apollo 8x30), a Sans & Streriffe 8x30, and an older Nikon Naturalist II 7x35. A couple of Tascos in 7x35 are close.

There is plenty of wow (however anybody wants to define it ) in the Prime. There is ease of view in abundance too.

I guess I'm gonna be forced into one of those Foresta 7x50's...at some point.

 

[NWBirder]

How much "Wow" one can get also depends on the expectation. My first pair of binoculars was a B&L Elite. It was an excellent pair, nearly classic if I still kept them. But I didn't get much wow out of it when I first got it. Not at the fault of the Elite, rather, it is I expected too much to begin with. The "wow" factor was huge when I first got the 7x36 ED2 since I didn't realize that 7x can be this good. Upgrading to 7x43 ED3 was uneventful, I already knew what I was getting out of it. I am afraid that I cannot get the joy of "wow.." by the time my PRIME order arrives after exposing myself to those reviews. haha

 

[jaymoynihan]

Of all the individually defined, subjective things we as users of optics apply to our optics is kind of an experience . When I see "wow factor" I think "wow" there that is again. I wonder what this user means by it...

That is an interesting word vis-a-vis binos. I would agree with you the "wow" factor is coming fewer and farther between for me.
I do not own a ZR. Have not looked through one yet either. But I have been plesantly surprised by a couple of the mid-range binos out there, specifically a couple Vortex models. The last "wow" I had was when first using my Leica 8x20 Monovid.

To me, "wow" describes a wide, flat, high res/contrast. Sometimes it is a gestalt of all factors.

Of the modern "alphas", I have starred through them for awhile in some large sporting goods stores. Have not seen any EDG's yet. But the last "wow" before that I had was the Swaro-8.5x42 EL Swarovision-whatever". Before that it was my 12x SE, and before that my 8x SE.
Then of course, ever so often i haul out my old Zeiss 7x42 BGAT*P, and have a "wow" experience.

Here is what the "alpha" gives, other than a status marker. In the following, I am not contrasting them with the ZR or whatever your preference may be.

A consistent level of quality control.

Precision and strength of build quality, and an expectation of durability.

A relaxed, eye muscle stress free experience while using all day, and when glassing for an hour or so with out taking them from your eyes.

Immediate usefulness the nano-second they are up to your eye.

Now, I am not saying you can "only" get that from an "alpha". But, given how new the lower price optically excellent roofs are, given the variation in quality control, given that we obviously do not yet have the comments such as "got these 10-15 years ago, and still function like new yada yada...", we really do not know yet.

 

[bh46118]

Good Porro Prism = WOW !

Good Roof Prism = Not !

 

[james holdsworth]

Good Porro Prism = WOW !

Good Roof Prism = Not !

You haven't tried the right roof yet.

 

[bh46118]

I can't dispute that. It's been at least five years since I've seen through any of the Swarovski or Zeiss roofs. I can tell you, that to my eyes the Minox Porro destroys any of the $400 to $500 Chinese ED roofs I've compared them to.

Bruce

You haven't tried the right roof yet.