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RSPB Snettisham - April 2023 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jamkat
- Start date
1. Lesser Black-backed Gull
2. Knot
3. Mallard
2. Knot
3. Mallard
Hi Rob. I think you’re right with the Gull but I’d say 2 is a Knot and 3 a Mallard.
Rich
Rich
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Hello,
I agree with Andrew and Rich, but the third picture surely is a Teal with that greenish speculum. Seeing this, the coarsly marked flanks and the head pattern is slightly better for a Teal too, as is lack of any orange/yellow on the bill.
Do you have more pictures?
I agree with Andrew and Rich, but the third picture surely is a Teal with that greenish speculum. Seeing this, the coarsly marked flanks and the head pattern is slightly better for a Teal too, as is lack of any orange/yellow on the bill.
Do you have more pictures?
I'd expect a Teal to show noticeable white sides to the Teal. The colour of the speculum could easily be due to the angle, so isn't reliable. The bill also looks quite heavy to me.
SteveClifton
Well-known member
Agree with:
LBBGull,
Knot,
Teal
LBBGull,
Knot,
Teal
Hmm I think it's probably teal due to the coarseness of the markings and the green speculum (which is "real" I think). However, I'm struggling to find characters that definitely id a bird like this. Can anyone suggest some?
Edit: white on tail sides doesn't always appear on teals
Edit: white on tail sides doesn't always appear on teals
nartreb
Speak softly and carry a long lens
This one does show a white stripe ahead of the tail, exactly where it should be on a teal. The bill pattern is wrong for a mallard. The extent of visible orange is a bit more than I've seen on most teals (at least on this side of the pond), but it follows the teal pattern (base of bill plus "lips", in teals that show any orange at all). That's not hugely different from the gadwall pattern, but I'm ruling out gadwall based on the speculum.
Honestly, I had an immediate (and probably premature) reaction of "that's not a mallard" just based on the degree of contrast within individual body feathers, before I enlarged the photo to see the bill or speculum. You usually don't see that much in-feather contrast on mallards, though that's mostly because you don't usually see birds with their feathers in such disarray.
To ID a bird, you need to find a combination of traits that cannot occur in any other (local) species. That's hard to summarize, especially since you have to consider non-breeding males.
For birds that look vaguely like female mallards, the first thing I look for is the tail. Mallards (including nonbreeding males, though not including all domestic breeds) will have easily visible white on at least the outer tail feathers. That's not exclusive to mallards but it helps narrow things down.
Next I'll check for a speculum. A speculum is not always visible (may be covered by other feathers) and doesn't always catch the light, but if you do see one, note the color and whether it has any border. A mallard speculum should be blue-purple and have a black-and-white border (with white on the outside) on both front and back. (The border is not always obvious, and the front border may be covered, but if you see a different color border, or a different border shape, you should suspect something other than a mallard. For example, mottled duck has an all-black border; Green-winged teal has a black border at top and bottom of the speculum, with a very thin white border at the back edge that is not always apparent; gadwall has an all-white speculum.
Third, many species have distinctive bills. Female mallards typically have a saddle-shaped dark spot on a bill that may vary from orange to olive (again, domestic breeds can mess this up); female gadwalls have a dark "racing stripe" down the top of an orangish bill. (Non-breeding male gadwalls have a bill similar to females, but darker.)
That should narrow the suspects enough to look for signs that support one particular species. Teals are small, female pintails have all-black bills and very plain heads, etc.
Honestly, I had an immediate (and probably premature) reaction of "that's not a mallard" just based on the degree of contrast within individual body feathers, before I enlarged the photo to see the bill or speculum. You usually don't see that much in-feather contrast on mallards, though that's mostly because you don't usually see birds with their feathers in such disarray.
To ID a bird, you need to find a combination of traits that cannot occur in any other (local) species. That's hard to summarize, especially since you have to consider non-breeding males.
For birds that look vaguely like female mallards, the first thing I look for is the tail. Mallards (including nonbreeding males, though not including all domestic breeds) will have easily visible white on at least the outer tail feathers. That's not exclusive to mallards but it helps narrow things down.
Next I'll check for a speculum. A speculum is not always visible (may be covered by other feathers) and doesn't always catch the light, but if you do see one, note the color and whether it has any border. A mallard speculum should be blue-purple and have a black-and-white border (with white on the outside) on both front and back. (The border is not always obvious, and the front border may be covered, but if you see a different color border, or a different border shape, you should suspect something other than a mallard. For example, mottled duck has an all-black border; Green-winged teal has a black border at top and bottom of the speculum, with a very thin white border at the back edge that is not always apparent; gadwall has an all-white speculum.
Third, many species have distinctive bills. Female mallards typically have a saddle-shaped dark spot on a bill that may vary from orange to olive (again, domestic breeds can mess this up); female gadwalls have a dark "racing stripe" down the top of an orangish bill. (Non-breeding male gadwalls have a bill similar to females, but darker.)
That should narrow the suspects enough to look for signs that support one particular species. Teals are small, female pintails have all-black bills and very plain heads, etc.
Yes thanks you've put together a lot of general id info here. But I was asking about this specific case, where the typical teal characters are either missing or hidden (edit: and where people are questioning the speculum colour). For example, perhaps it is possible to see white ahead of the tail sides but it's not evident. With no clear references we can't judge size.
I think the best I could come up with was the fact that the feather fringes are mostly white here but would be buff or brown in mallard
SteveClifton
Well-known member
Edit: Apols to Nartreb, who already mentioned the whiter tail of Mallard above. My post attempts to go into more detail on that feature
One feature of female Eurasian Teal and Mallard that I hadn't appreciated is the colour of the tail feathers.
On Teal they tend to be darker with thin pale fringes, and with little contrast with the upper tail coverts, whereas on Mallard they are much paler and contrast more with the upper tail coverts.
Attached are screen shots of one of my images (above) with the OP's original below (both Teal in my view) and Mallard on the right. I've done this twice to show two different Mallards, but every other female Mallard image I could find online is similar.
Also attached are screen shots from the Eurasian Teal and Mallard pdfs from Species Files – Guia Blasco Zumeta de Aves
I think it's also worth pointing out that the white mark near the tail side is present in the OP image, it's just a little more subdued than in my bird. Feathers move around and sometimes diagnostic features are hidden/partially hidden. But it is still clearly there.
One feature of female Eurasian Teal and Mallard that I hadn't appreciated is the colour of the tail feathers.
On Teal they tend to be darker with thin pale fringes, and with little contrast with the upper tail coverts, whereas on Mallard they are much paler and contrast more with the upper tail coverts.
Attached are screen shots of one of my images (above) with the OP's original below (both Teal in my view) and Mallard on the right. I've done this twice to show two different Mallards, but every other female Mallard image I could find online is similar.
Also attached are screen shots from the Eurasian Teal and Mallard pdfs from Species Files – Guia Blasco Zumeta de Aves
I think it's also worth pointing out that the white mark near the tail side is present in the OP image, it's just a little more subdued than in my bird. Feathers move around and sometimes diagnostic features are hidden/partially hidden. But it is still clearly there.
Attachments
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nartreb
Speak softly and carry a long lens
There is something in favor of teal in the paleness of feather fringes and the lack of a brown or buffy tone in the rest of the body feathers, but this should be used with caution. Mallards are variable, as Steve's examples show well, and photos show different shades in different light or with different camera settings. I have more confidence in the speculum and the bill. Too bad we can't see the legs. (That might be taken as a hint that the legs are dark and not bright orange, but that's a huge stretch without a control: a photo of a mallard in the same position, light, water, distance...)
