Small remark on duboisi and Alphonse Joseph Charles Dubois (1839-1921) (1 Viewer)

[Taphrospilus]

Small remark on HBW Alive entry as per today:

● Dr Alphonse Joseph Charles Dubois (1839-1921) Belgian zoologist (subsp. Bycanistes fistulator, subsp. Ploceus melanocephalus).

• Ploceus melanocephalus duboisi here
• Bycanistes fistulator duboisi here

No doubt they are dedicated to Alphonse Joseph Charles Dubois.

I assume the year of death 1921 might came from here page 98. But from obituary here I checked here. There is written:

Il s'est éteint doucement, sans heurt, dans sa quatre-vinght-deuxième année, le 1er juin dernier, en sa villa de Coxyde-sur-Mer, qu'il n'a pas quittée de toute la durée de la guerre.

For me it is not clear when Fascicule II (part 2) was published? Was the publishing date before or after 1st June 1921 when he died? Or does Laurent Coopman mean 1st of June 1920?

Here is written:

Alphonse Dubois naquit lui même à Aix-la-Chapelle, le 18 octobre 1839, et l'année suivante son père, Charles-Fréderic Dubois, le savant ornithologiste, vin s'établir à Bruxelles avec sa jeune famille.

So we know Dubois was born 18th October 1839 in Aachen and he was in his 82 year (means he was still 81??).

OK after writing all this the death date must be indeed 1921 as he was 81 years on 18th October 1920 (I have had some doubts before). Or anyone can proof me wrong with my analysis e.g. as my reading of the french text is wrong?

 

[Taphrospilus]

Maybe someone can throw some more light on the other duboisi in HBW Alive Sieur Du Bois e.g. here. What's his first name etc.?

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Martin, that "Du Bois" seems even harder to find. Many have tried before you, and they have all failed. Not even Gallica know his true, full name! Not even his Initials!

Maybe some info can be found in the first two posts in that list; "Les voyages faits par le sieur D. B. [ Du Bois ] aux isles Dauphine ou Madagascar , et Bourbon ou Mascarenne, ès années 1669, 70, 71 et 72" . Or its translation; "The voyages made by the sieur D. B. to the islands Dauphine or Madagascar and Bourbon or Mascarenne in the years 1669-70-71 and 72 / ...". The other ones are not relevant (I think). Alt. here or here, both quicker to access.

Good luck tracing him!

Björn

PS. Note that he is "Dubois" in the English version. And that neither version must be the correct one. Some Historians consider this a pseudonymous name, of a traveller, whomever he was!?
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[l_raty]

He is "DVBOIS", in one word, in French too, actually.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

He is "DVBOIS", in one word, in French too, actually.

Nope, I don´t think so. More likely "Dubois" there as well. V = U. Or do you mean it says "Av Lectevr" on the following page?

 

[l_raty]

Yes, it means "Dubois", indeed. I meant it's in one word, not two as in "Sieur Du Bois", both in French and English.
(I think we agree, thus. )

 

[mb1848]

Dubois:
Henry Loiseau sieur Dubois secretaire et intendant de Champmargou parti du Port-Louis le 13 Avril 1669 sur le Saint-Paul arrive a Madagascar le 2 Octobre 1669

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Mark strikes again!

Where did you find that? Or him; Henry (alt. Henri) Loiseau sieur Dubois ... !?

Does fit pretty well with the Brief Chronology in the English Edition (here, page xvI, also attached)
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[mb1848]

From here; https://books.google.com/books?id=L...ved=0ahUKEwjixbC7hObJAhVH2WMKHRQGAj4Q6AEIMTAD .
He dedicated his book to Monsieur Loyseau , himself or a relative.

 

[mb1848]

Key to Scientific Names:
Henri Loyseau Sieur Dubois (fl. 1673) French secretary and quartermaster to Lt.-Gen Charles de La Chaussée Seigneur de Champmargou, in Madagascar and the Mascarenes 1669-1672 (Mark Brown in litt.) (Falco, syn. Mascarinus mascarinus, Nesoenas, Nycticorax). Thanks to Martin for asking the question and Bjorn for motivating me by saying all others had failed! I like Mr. Jobling's choices, Henri is more likely than Henry and D.B. himself used Loyseau.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Maybe some clues further can be found in the following quotes?

Thomas Jefferson Libraries (here):

First Edition. 12mo. 130 leaves, errata list at the end; the dedication to Monsieur Loyseau is signed Dvbois. [i.e. Dubois] Barbier IV, 1104.
Not in Quérard.
Boucher de la Richarderie IV, 271.
Sibree, page 5.
Grandidier I, no. 1518.
Entered by Jefferson without price in his undated manuscript catalogue.
The given name of the Sieur Dubois is not found in any bibliography or biography consulted. He was born in France, and set sail on April 13, 1669, for Madagascar, where he arrived on October 2. Dubois was offered positions in both Madagascar and Bourbon, but his health failed and he was obliged to return to France. He set sail on September 4, 1672, and debarked at La Rochelle on January 20, 1673.

Also note the following phrase (from here):

… c´est maintenant le tour de Dubois, le sieur D. B., dont la relation, dédiée à un conseiller du roi nommé Loyseau, …

And here:

P. I. Epistle Dedicatory. Monsieur Loyseau. " All inquiries have failed to obtain any information regarding this King's Councillor. In Colbert's letters reference is made to a M. Loyseau {vide vol. vi. p. 271, note i), but this is the eminent juriconsulte of a previous generation, Charles Loyseau, who died in 1627. The patron of Dubois may have been, and probably was, a son or near relation of this lawyer, whose works were published in 1660, and held in great esteem.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Rocking the boat ... a little

Here´s some minor additions, questions and details regarding:

4 X duboisi
● the extinct (and still debated species or subspecies) Reunion Island Pigeon (Columba) Nesoenas (mayeri) duboisi ROTHSCHILD 1907 (here) as "Nesoenas duboisi"

Therefore the bird mentioned by Le Sieur D.B. was evidently a representative of N. mayeri … I name it in memory of Monsieur Dubois, who was the author of the Voyages of the " Sieur D.B."

● the extinct Reunion Night-Heron Nycticorax duboisi ROTHSCHILD 1907 (here) as "Ardea duboisi"

L 'ABBÉ DUBOIS is the only author who has, as far as I can ascertain, told us that the Island of Réunion also had a large almost flightless Heron as well as Mauritius and Rodriguez ; and so feeling sure that it, like most other birds of this island, was distinct I name it after him.

● the invalid "Mascarinus duboisi" FORBES 1879 (here, in text) [syn. Mascarinus mascarin/mascarinus* LINNAEUS 1771 (also extinct)]

… a new specific name ; and, at Prof. Newton's suggestion, I propose that of duboisi, in memory of the French voyager Du Bois, who visited Madagascar and Bourbon in 1669-72,

The same Parrot is also present in the above mentioned Rothschild's Paper of 1907 (p.64).

● the extinct Réunion Kestrel Falco duboisi COWLES 1994 (OD unseen by me), but apparently read by BirdLife International & The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species 2012 (here), as they claim:

This species was endemic to the island of Réunion, but is now Extinct and has not been recorded since 1671-1672. […] The only historical record of small falcons is of the emerillons [a term for small falcons] reported by Dubois in 1671-2 …

Further details in the Wikipage for Réunion kestrel (here)

All four OD's of these birds clearly refer to the one and same Paper (1674): Les voyages faits par le sieur D. B. aux isles Dauphine ou Madagascar , et Bourbon ou Mascarenne, ès années 1669, 70, 71 et 72 (See Post No. 3, this thread, and onwards). And "sieur D. B" (Du Bois/Dubois) dedicated his Paper to an even less known Mr. Loyseau (most likely a relative or sponsor, surely not to himself).

But why is the Clerical angle and the Title Abbé (clearly written in the OD of "his" Nigh-Heron) left out in the explanation (that we´ve got this far) of whomever Monsieur Dubois was!?

What about the French Lazarian missionary Abbé Dubois (fl. 1673) a k a "Sieur D.B" [(Le) Sieur Dubois], who (also!?) apparently visited Madagascar and Bourbon in 1669-72 (here, p.54, referring to the same 1674 Paper)? If his "Civilian name" was Loyseau (alt. Loiseau) I do not know.

Could (Le) Sieur possibly be a fittingly equal (honourary) title for the Clerical Abbé? And if so, does this goes without saying?

If Abbé Dubois is equal of (the guy we´ve got this far):"Henri Loyseau Sieur Dubois, French secretary and quartermaster to Lt.-Gen. Charles de La Chaussée Seigneur de Champmargou" I also do not know, but I agree, at least in parts, most things does point towards it. His alleged employer Charles de La Chaussée (Seigneur de Champmargou) seem to have died in about the same time as Dubois left, in 1672 (here). After having read the English version of the article by "Sieur D.B." he doesn´t sound much like a Clerical person, he writes of them (the Missionaries, he himself doesn´t seem to care much, or being involved in their doings, he´s simply observing, taking notes) and he, Dubois, does accept to work for Mr. de Champmargou?

Unfortunately due to my lack of understanding French I cannot understand the full picture (in the Original French text) and how it all, when, where, he, them is, are connected. Sorry.

So take this for what it´s worth!

At least the OD's was in English.

Björn

PS. Other links worth a peek; here, here, here and here … ?

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*for the issue mascarin versus mascarinus, see earlier thread here
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[mb1848]

Rothschild says that he has a beautiful copy of Sieur D.B's rare work and he lists the author as Pere Dubois! And throughout Rothschild's book at least 3 times he calls him Abbe Dubois. A few times as Monsieur Dubois??? This was a trip sponsored by the French Royal East India Company, I think. They left from Port Louis their port. Did the company bring priests along for their employees religious needs or as missionaries?

 

[l_raty]

Just a few thoughts in no particular order.

• Rothschild says that he has a beautiful copy of Sieur D.B's rare work and he lists the author as Pere Dubois! And throughout Rothschild's book at least 3 times he calls him Abbe Dubois. A few times as Monsieur Dubois??? This was a trip sponsored by the French Royal East India Company, I think. They left from Port Louis their port. Did the company bring priests along for their employees religious needs or as missionaries?

  [Dubois 1674] makes it clear that there were missionaries on the ship, "on their way to the Kingdom of Siam to preach the Holy Gospel." These celebrated the offices on board. But I couldn't find a word about "priests" that would accompany them, and Dubois certainly doesn't speak of himself as being one of them.
  
  
• Rothschild seems inconsistent in the way he calls Dubois, but he is consistent in which work he authored: he certainly doesn't appear to refer to two distinct persons. However, the reason why he called Dubois an abbot are at the very least not clear. Which evidence [Benoist 2007] based himself on to call him "l'abbé Dubois" is not clear either. (Might this not indeed be based on Rothschild 1907...?) Benoist's citation of Sieur D.B.'s book may in fact be second-hand only (see the footnote, where he cites the work as "cité par Morães, op. cit., tome 3, pp. 179 ss."); perhaps seeing Benoist's source, [Morães 1998], might help to understand some things. (Hopefully we are not faced with a confusion with the other person that was known as "l'abbé Dubois" in this time: [Guillaume Dubois], who clearly never went to Bourbon or Madagascar.)
  
  
• What Dubois writes in his book suggests that he was looking for a position on the islands. From the [English translation]:
  

  Some days after arrival I went on shore & saluted Monsieur de Mondevergues, who did me the honour to receive me kindly, in consideration of Monsieur de Preaux, who had spoken of me to him ; he offer'd to me the Command of forty French Soldiers, destin'd to proceed to settle at a place named Andravois, situated near the Province of Anosse ; I thank'd him humbly, & left him this time without concluding anything.
  
  Next I went to salute Monsieur de Champmargou, Lieutenant-General for the King in the Government of the Island, & other Oriental Countries, under the rule of his Majesty. I did the same to Monsieur Despinay, Procureur-General for the King in the said Island, & I found in his house the Sieur de Preaux, who told me that be had spoken about me to Monsieur de Champmargou ; & that if I wish'd to live with him in quality of Secretary & Intendant of his House, the opportunity offer'd itself. I accepted this position, having heard speak of the uprightness of the Sieur of Champmargou.

  Thus he had M. de Preaux ("Captain in the Royal Navy, & Envoy of his Majesty") speak for him to the officials on Madagascar, some of whom then offered him positions: this is how he became "secrétaire et intendant de Champmargou", as written by Couderc 1964, in the work cited by Mark. Would a priest be offered the command of a troop of soldier...?
  
  
• Note that Couderc 1964 also has at least [another passage] that cites Dubois, in the following terms:
  

  « Le 8e jour de septembre 1670 après-midy », les fiancés font un contrat de mariage « en la maison de la dite future espouse » au Port-Dauphin, «en présence de Mre Henry Loiseau, sieur Dubois, secrétaire de Monsieur de Champmargou, et du sieur Clair Michaud, commis de la Cie », témoins, et de leurs « amis communs » :
  «Pierre Loya, Escuyer,...

  This text is clearly in part directly quoted from a document in 17th-Century French ("midy", now "midi"; "espouse", now "épouse"; "Escuyer", now "Écuyer"...), which probably makes it rather trustworthy. (And indeed a source of "new evidence".)
  
  
• Nonetheless, I feel it somewhat surprising that no one, up to now, seems to have been able to trace a "Counsellor of the King in his Councils" named "Loyseau", and that might be associated to this story. With such a rank, surely this person's name would be expected to appear somewhere...? I also can't fully refrain a feeling that the name "Loiseau, Sieur Dubois" (= "the Bird, Lord of the Wood") may be somewhat, well, let's say "improbable". The book was clearly published almost anonymously, suggesting the author had no desire to broadcast his name. This author was a traveller, having taken passage on a ship sailing to a far-away country, apparently only thanks to the help of a patron or protector (see [the dedication to Loyseau] in the book), but without any assured position in this country and without any clearly expressed purpose to his voyage. This all makes me wonder to which extent this man might not have been fleeing France. If so, perhaps under a fake name, that he would then have used while on Madagascar. If so, we should also perhaps not expect the protector to be cited by his true name in the book, as this might incriminate him: "Monsieur Loyseau" might in fact be a fake dedication as well...
  But, of course, this may also all just be me imagining things...

 

[Taphrospilus]

(Hopefully we are not faced with a confusion with the other person that was known as "l'abbé Dubois" in this time: [Guillaume Dubois], who clearly never went to Bourbon or Madagascar.)
[/LIST]

Minor input. And not confused with Abbé Dubois (1752-1824) (François Noël Alexandre Dubois (1752-1824)) here as not the correct time.

P.S. The plant genus Duboisia might be a dedication to him (but there are as well opinions that it might be a dedication to Charles du Bois (1656-1740) here. Even there is a lot confusion as some authors wrote about Louis Dubois??? author of Méthode éprouvée, avec laquelle on peut parvenir facilement, et sans maître, à connaître les plantes de l'intérieur de la France, et en particulier celles des environs d'Orléans e.g. here. The Louis-François Du Bois is authotr of Du pommier, du poirier et du cormier but not of Méthode éprouvée...