Tamron 2nd generation SP 150-600mm Di VC USD 'G2' (1 Viewer)

[Apodidae49]

Tried to reply to this thread further down but it’s shut down due to age (bit like my love-life). Anyway my lens arrives tomorrow so I’ll no doubt be plaguing you lot for assistance in smoothing out the learning curve.

 

[marcsantacurz]

It's a pretty easy lens to use.

Camera-wise (in other postings), I use M for fixed speed and aperture with auto-ISO, AF-C with 3D tracking, spot exposure (+0 ev when background visible, +0.7 to +1.0 ev for backlit BIF shots). I also often shoot in Qc (quiet continuous) with electronic front shutter (not sure if this is available on the d5600), otherwise use CL. I rarely use CH for super fast shooting except in some special situations.

The zoom ring slides forwards/backwards as a "soft lock" to prevent rotation. If it's not zooming easily, slide it backwards (towards the camera). There's also a "hard lock" switch to keep it at 150mm.

VC (vibration control) 1 is general use, 2 (middle) is for panning, 3 (towards camera) does not apply to viewfinder but tries to do a better job with VC in the picture.

I usually shoot at 600mm. Some people like to back off a little to 550mm, but I've not personally seen a reason to do that. I don't use the teleconverter.

I use a Black Rapids strap [1] that I put in the first 1/4-20 socket (towards the camera). I then use a Sirui monopod [2] with Arca Swiss plate [3] and put it on the outside of the foot, so I can carry the whole thing as one package and the monopod is always ready to go. I often walk around with the monopod extended so I just need to flip it over (being careful not to bonk someone near me). When I'm waiting for a bird to take off or do something exciting, I find it really nice to have the camera on a monopod and not try holding it.

I sometimes use a tiling monopod head [4] so I don't need to lean the monopod over to shoot BIF or up in a tree. But it's pretty heavy and I don't always use it. It's nice, but still have mixed feelings about it.

Another thing I like about the monopod is even if its not fully extended, it has a nice cushy grip handle that I can use to steer the lens. It also lets me easily get down to a low (say 1' - 2') perspective for birds on the ground which I think looks much better than shooting from above (say 4' - 5'). I also bring a termarest sit pad [5] for my knees when using low shots.

Marc

[1] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1278394-REG/blackrapid_361005_sport_breathe_single_strap.html
[2] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/822252-REG/Sirui_BSRP326_P_326_6_Section_Carbon_Fiber.html
[3] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...5_QRR_125_Ballhead_Monopod_Quick_Release.html
[4] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/849711-REG/Kirk_MPA_2_MPA_2_Monopod_Head.html
[5] https://www.rei.com/product/829881/therm-a-rest-z-seat-pad

 

[Apodidae49]

I’ve got a monopod but not a head so I just used to screw my LUMIX FZ72 straight onto it, so I thought I could do the same with the Tamron foot. Just bought a Lowepro Slingshot 202 AW and if my measurements are correct, and I fiddle with the internal dividers and stow the camera differently, I might get the Tamron in, with the lens hood reversed. Most of my bird photography will be done from hides so a beanbag will be a good acquisition as a steadier and protection for the lens body. I might get some neoprene camp wraps but more for protection than any stealthy (or fashionable) reasons.

 

[marcsantacurz]

I’ve got a monopod but not a head so I just used to screw my LUMIX FZ72 straight onto it, so I thought I could do the same with the Tamron foot. Just bought a Lowepro Slingshot 202 AW and if my measurements are correct, and I fiddle with the internal dividers and stow the camera differently, I might get the Tamron in, with the lens hood reversed. Most of my bird photography will be done from hides so a beanbag will be a good acquisition as a steadier and protection for the lens body. I might get some neoprene camp wraps but more for protection than any stealthy (or fashionable) reasons.

I use the LensCoat on mine. It's ok, not great. The Tamron has quite a few narrow rings so the lens coat has many pieces and they sometimes get squished together. Nothing that makes the lens not work, but just a bit annoying. I'm thinking of just removing the small piece over the focus ring, that is the one that gets cocked up; it would also make it easier to find when I want manual override. I use the lenscoat for protection and to insulate my hands from a cold lens.

I also use the lenscoat hood and never use the lens cap.

Marc

 

[Apodidae49]

Tammy just arrived, amazed at the compact size! Just done a few photos for comparison alongside 70-300 and for the same focal length, 300mm, there’s no difference in size of an object in the frame. Thought the Nikon lens, being DX would be 450 or have I got it wrong and is it the camera sensor that gives the extra length effect?

 

[marcsantacurz]

Tammy just arrived, amazed at the compact size! Just done a few photos for comparison alongside 70-300 and for the same focal length, 300mm, there’s no difference in size of an object in the frame. Thought the Nikon lens, being DX would be 450 or have I got it wrong and is it the camera sensor that gives the extra length effect?

The focal length of a lens is a physical property of the lens. It is a measure of the distance from the lens to the focal point (where the lines converge). A 300mm lens is always a 300mm lens (the actual distance can differ a little depending on the lens formula). The focal length does not vary based on DX or FX. The _field_of_view_ depends on the sensor, not the DX or FX size of the lens.

A full-frame lens needs to have an image circle that projects on the sensor that fits around the 36mm x 24mm rectangle sensor. So, they need to be a certain diameter to project that circle for a given minimum f-stop (largest opening).

A crop-sensor, like DX, is smaller (24mm x 16mm), so they need a smaller image circle (about 1/2.25 = 1/(1.5^2) the area). This means that for the same focal length and the same minimum f-stop, a DX lens can be lighter and smaller than an FX lens.

Because an FX lens has a larger image circle than a DX sensor, it can be used without vignetting on smaller sensors. A DX lens cannot cover a FX sensor, so a FX camera will crop down to DX when using a DX lens. But in both cases, 300mm is 300mm.

Using a DX sensor can be thought of like always cropping a photo. A Nikon d850 has more-or-less the same sensor density (pixels per mm) as a Nikon d500. If you shoot a d850 with a 300mm lens in FX mode you see the full field of view. If you crop it down to DX size (1/2.25 the area) on the same camera, you will get about the same image as if you shot that exact lens on a DX camera. You just see less of the field of view.

This is why DX camera and other smaller formats have greater depth of field (the amount that looks in focus forwards and backwards) for the same field of view. That is because a 200mm lens on a DX has the same field of view as a 300mm on FX and the 200mm will have greater field of view at comparable f-stop for the same amount of light on the subject.

Marc

 

[marcsantacurz]

This section of a wikipedia article has a great graphic illustrating a crop sensor vs a larger sensor using the same lens. It shows the idea of the image circle on the left that is where the sensor would be. An FX lens, for example, would be the red lines and a DX sensor would be the black dotted lines. If one is designing a lens for DX, clearly the lens could be a smaller because it does not need to project out to the red lines for the same focal length.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_factor#Magnification_factor

 

[Apodidae49]

The focal length of a lens is a physical property of the lens. It is a measure of the distance from the lens to the focal point (where the lines converge). A 300mm lens is always a 300mm lens (the actual distance can differ a little depending on the lens formula). The focal length does not vary based on DX or FX. The _field_of_view_ depends on the sensor, not the DX or FX size of the lens.

A full-frame lens needs to have an image circle that projects on the sensor that fits around the 36mm x 24mm rectangle sensor. So, they need to be a certain diameter to project that circle for a given minimum f-stop (largest opening).

A crop-sensor, like DX, is smaller (24mm x 16mm), so they need a smaller image circle (about 1/2.25 = 1/(1.5^2) the area). This means that for the same focal length and the same minimum f-stop, a DX lens can be lighter and smaller than an FX lens.

Because an FX lens has a larger image circle than a DX sensor, it can be used without vignetting on smaller sensors. A DX lens cannot cover a FX sensor, so a FX camera will crop down to DX when using a DX lens. But in both cases, 300mm is 300mm.

Using a DX sensor can be thought of like always cropping a photo. A Nikon d850 has more-or-less the same sensor density (pixels per mm) as a Nikon d500. If you shoot a d850 with a 300mm lens in FX mode you see the full field of view. If you crop it down to DX size (1/2.25 the area) on the same camera, you will get about the same image as if you shot that exact lens on a DX camera. You just see less of the field of view.

This is why DX camera and other smaller formats have greater depth of field (the amount that looks in focus forwards and backwards) for the same field of view. That is because a 200mm lens on a DX has the same field of view as a 300mm on FX and the 200mm will have greater field of view at comparable f-stop for the same amount of light on the subject.

Marc

God, I miss the box Brownie and the Instamatic! 3

 

[marcsantacurz]

God, I miss the box Brownie and the Instamatic! 3

Digital has a lot of advantages, but simplicity is not always one of them.

I think on this topic, in particular, the marketing and common usage of saying "crop factor increases focal length" or calling it the "focal length multiplier" has done a disservice and added a lot of confusion.

If it were presented solely as "crop factor" meaning you take a 35mm picture then divide the length and width by the crop factor (making a smaller picture for DX or a larger picture for medium format) it would avoid the whole focal length confusion. The focal length stays the same.

Marc

 

[Apodidae49]

Returning the Tammy, as I suspected it’s a grey import and when I tried to register it with Tamron UK they knocked it back. The internet sellers assured me I had their 5 year warranty but since internet sellers go out of business every 5 minutes, I decided to return it. High Street retailers like Wilkinson Cameras and smaller independent outlets now have it at £999 which isn’t bad for a legit product.

 

[marcsantacurz]

Returning the Tammy, as I suspected it’s a grey import and when I tried to register it with Tamron UK they knocked it back. The internet sellers assured me I had their 5 year warranty but since internet sellers go out of business every 5 minutes, I decided to return it. High Street retailers like Wilkinson Cameras and smaller independent outlets now have it at £999 which isn’t bad for a legit product.

Ah, that's too bad. Yeah, I always watch out for someone saying it has a store warranty or such and always ask when buying 2nd hand.

Did you get to shoot it at all? How did you like it?

Marc

 

[Apodidae49]

Ah, that's too bad. Yeah, I always watch out for someone saying it has a store warranty or such and always ask when buying 2nd hand.

Did you get to shoot it at all? How did you like it?

Marc

Shot a dozen or so with it, had VC on 1 and AF on and it found focus very quickly but some of the 600mm shots were blurred as I was only shooting hand-held, sitting in a chair. However I also had some pin sharp shots. It was very dull so had ISO on 800 and was getting around 1/125th shutter at f6.3 so I suppose at that zoom and aperture the depth of field was virtually non-existent.

Totally different animal to anything I’ve ever used before. HEAVY, but I suppose in the grand scheme of things, it’s a lightweight.

I’m going to sit back, take a breath and decide if a big lens is really for me or do I just want to increase my interest in general photography as the Nikon is head and shoulders above the LUMIX FZ72 in everything but reach.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Shot a dozen or so with it, had VC on 1 and AF on and it found focus very quickly but some of the 600mm shots were blurred as I was only shooting hand-held, sitting in a chair. However I also had some pin sharp shots. It was very dull so had ISO on 800 and was getting around 1/125th shutter at f6.3 so I suppose at that zoom and aperture the depth of field was virtually non-existent.

Totally different animal to anything I’ve ever used before. HEAVY, but I suppose in the grand scheme of things, it’s a lightweight.

I’m going to sit back, take a breath and decide if a big lens is really for me or do I just want to increase my interest in general photography as the Nikon is head and shoulders above the LUMIX FZ72 in everything but reach.

A couple of things ......

Firstly, 1/125th sec is a slow shutter speed for this lens, even with the VC. There is probably some variation depending on your technique and the frequency signature of the vibrations of your hold and how this works with the focal length you are shooting at, and the distance to, and size of your subject, and how this works in concert with the particular unit sample of the lens that you have. I've found a bit of a sweet spot for my lens in a pinch around 1/400th of a second, but really you want to be 2x, 4x this or more. The reciprocal rule recommends 1/1000th sec, but really even 1/1600th sec is a reasonable minimum. Really, you have to balance lighting conditions (bright - dull, direct - indirect), ISO (desired or available), subject(high/low contrast), and hold conditions, and yes, as you said, depth of field considerations too and focus point on the subject. Sometimes it's pointless and you're just better off packing up and going home.

Secondly, something like a Black Rapid Strap will help brace your hold and minimize vibrations along with stable stance and minimized leverage braced locked hold and breathing techniques. The Nikon D5600 body and grip is quite small, and so is unlikely to balance as well as some other more substantial cameras.

Thirdly, the G2 is about as light as it gets for 600mm (until Nikon comes out with the PF 600 f5.6 - saving you the grand total of ~200 grams and several thousand dollars weighing your wallet down ! .
Shooting at 600mm is no casual affair - it takes deliberate effort.

If you want something lighter, there is the Nikon PF 500 f5.6 (again several G) , or more within the budget - the Sigma/Tamron 100-400's , or a bit more, the Canon 400L f5.6 (but there goes being a Nikon man ! ..... and the 600mm of native reach .....

You'll have to see where your interests ultimately lie ...... good results will definitely foster more satisfaction and optimism ..... while poor results are likely to do the opposite .....



Chosun :gh:

 

[marcsantacurz]

Shot a dozen or so with it, had VC on 1 and AF on and it found focus very quickly but some of the 600mm shots were blurred as I was only shooting hand-held, sitting in a chair. However I also had some pin sharp shots. It was very dull so had ISO on 800 and was getting around 1/125th shutter at f6.3 so I suppose at that zoom and aperture the depth of field was virtually non-existent.

Totally different animal to anything I’ve ever used before. HEAVY, but I suppose in the grand scheme of things, it’s a lightweight.

I’m going to sit back, take a breath and decide if a big lens is really for me or do I just want to increase my interest in general photography as the Nikon is head and shoulders above the LUMIX FZ72 in everything but reach.

First, I'd go shoot what you have, the d5600 + 70-300 AF-P. At 450mm without cropping (equivalent) you should be able to get some good stuff, especially if you can crop maybe 2x - 3x more. If you can shoot at a good ISO (say ~400 max) with fast shutter, you should be able to crop a lot. The lower the ISO, the better the cropping.

For a cropped 300mm, you still need to keep the shutter speed up because the apparent blur in the photo will depend on the cropped image. So try to stay up in the 1/640 - 1/1250 range (1/ (300 * 2) - 1/(300 * 4) range as you would crop). Faster is almost always better, assuming you have the light for a suitable aperture and ISO.

If you are shooting stationary subjects with decent support, you can always try lower shutter speed and see how well the VR kicks in. As you saw with the Tammy, even at 1/125 you can now and then get a sharp image. But it will not be consistent and only for stationary subjects not too far away.

The 70-300 AF-P VR only has a VR on/off mode. It does not have a "sports" or "panning" mode, so I'm not sure how well it will do trying to track BIF. But it sounds like you shoot from a hide with bean bag or similar support, so might not be an issue. You can only turn the VR on/off via a menu setting, there is no switch on the lens. Make sure it is set correctly.

The Aperture can open up wider compared to 600mm because 300mm has much better DoF [2]. Your lens is f/6.3 at 300mm, so I'd shoot that mostly wide-open unless the subject is very close. A 300mm on DX sensor (CF 1.5) at f/5.6 at 60ft has a 2.7 ft (+/- 1.35 ft) DoF (18.3m is 0.82m), which is plenty for most birds unless you want wing-tip to nose on a side shot. A 600mm lens is only 0.66 ft (8" or 0.2m) so only +/- 4" (0.1m). That's why I shoot 600mm at f/8 is to get 12" or 0.3m of DoF. When I'm shooting larger birds (large hawks, heron, egret, etc.) I'll go f/10 to f/11 if I can, at 600mm.

In terms of the 150-600 test, I think you were in very low lighting. ISO 800 @ 1/125, f/6.3 is an EV value of, respectively, -3 +7 +5 1/3 = 9 1/3 which is like "night sports" or the dim end of "just after sunset." [1].

To have a good depth of field (say f/8) and good speed (say 1/1250) and reasonable ISO (say 400), you need a subject luminance of 14 1/3 EV, which is "hazy sunlight (soft shadows)" or the bright side of "just before sunset." Because it is a log-2 scale, that's 2 ^ (14 1/3 - 9 1/3) = 32x more light than what you were shooting in. Depending on situation, I sometimes pop up to ISO 800 - ISO 2000 or shoot at 1/1600 or 1/2000. I almost never shoot wider than f/8 for a 600mm lens (I think Chosun uses f/7.1 at 550mm).

Because all these numbers are usually too much to track while shooting, several of us have recommended the M setting (fixed speed and aperture) plus auto-ISO, where you can set your ISO limits (say 100 - 3200). The camera will show you a red ISO value of 3200 if it cannot make the lighting work, otherwise the ISO value will show in white. If I am shooting against a bright background (e.g. BIF), I will add a +0.7 to +1.0 EV exposure compensation, which tells the auto-ISO to make things brighter.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value#Tabulated_exposure_values Note that EV calculations do not depend (directly) on focal length, only the f-stop (which depends on focal length).
[2] https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dof-calculator.htm, calculating DoF has a lot of factors and can vary a fair bit based on the sensor, so these numbers are guidelines and you might want to increase the f-stop a bit for more detail or decrease it for more blur.

 

[Apodidae49]

You are obviously an expert photographer and ornithologist whereas I am an expert fly fisherman who has birding and photography as a side interest. I don’t have a beanbag but was going to get one for the Tammy, it may also be a useful option for the 70-300. I plan to use the 70-300 from a hide either on a monopod or possibly my tripod. I’ve always owned a camera and take one out on walks, excursions and holidays. I hope to get more enjoyment from photography by using the Nikon and a range of lenses and learn as I go along.

One minor problem I’ve encountered is that my left eye is the strongest and the one I use in the viewfinder. This puts my nose right on the Info button on the touchscreen and I’ve made it beep a few times but don’t think I’ve changed any of the settings (yet).

Rather than get the 10-20 DX as my next lens, I may have a look at the 18-200 as a really useful walk-around lens.

Keep your helpful information coming, I do understand it (although it tends to make me feel rather inadequate) but I do have a technical mind and every day is a school day!

 

[Andy Adcock]

A couple of things ......

Secondly, something like a Black Rapid Strap will help brace your hold and minimize vibrations along with stable stance and minimized leverage braced locked hold and breathing techniques. The Nikon D5600 body and grip is quite small, and so is unlikely to balance as well as some other more substantial cameras.

Chosun :gh:

My wife has been using this lens for about three years and always, completely hand held. It takes a lot of practice and no little strength, I'm always amazed at the shots she gets with it, I couldn't do it. She even manages to get some canopy dwelling stuff in real crappy light, as I said, practice and the more you use it, the better you'll get.

Searching my name in the galleries on Surfbirds will show a range of her shots from Venezuela and Costa Rica to give an idea of what's possible with persistence. Without paying a whole lot more money, this is probably as good a lens of it's type as there is.

 

[marcsantacurz]

You are obviously an expert photographer and ornithologist whereas I am an expert fly fisherman who has birding and photography as a side interest. I don’t have a beanbag but was going to get one for the Tammy, it may also be a useful option for the 70-300. I plan to use the 70-300 from a hide either on a monopod or possibly my tripod. I’ve always owned a camera and take one out on walks, excursions and holidays. I hope to get more enjoyment from photography by using the Nikon and a range of lenses and learn as I go along.

One minor problem I’ve encountered is that my left eye is the strongest and the one I use in the viewfinder. This puts my nose right on the Info button on the touchscreen and I’ve made it beep a few times but don’t think I’ve changed any of the settings (yet).

Rather than get the 10-20 DX as my next lens, I may have a look at the 18-200 as a really useful walk-around lens.

Thank you. It's mostly a serious hobby for me.

I think if you can keep the ISO low and speed high you'll get shots you can crop quite a bit, even if you shoot JPEG out of the camera. I don't have exact numbers for that camera & lens, but probably ISO 400 or less and 1/640 or higher. You'll need to play around with it and see what it looks like in your photo editing software when you crop it.

There is probably a menu setting to disable the touch screen when shooting, but keep it turned on (touchable) for playback. Ok, i looked in the manual, it's under menu button -> wrench -> touch controls. I set it for playback only, as I'm looking at the screen away from my face at those times.

See what you can find for the 18-200 DX VR. I think you'd use that a lot more than the 10-20. You probably won't use the 18-55 AF-P any more unless you're optimizing for weight or size or want a 2nd lens to keep in your pocket with the 70-300.

Marc

 

[Apodidae49]

Thank you. It's mostly a serious hobby for me.

I think if you can keep the ISO low and speed high you'll get shots you can crop quite a bit, even if you shoot JPEG out of the camera. I don't have exact numbers for that camera & lens, but probably ISO 400 or less and 1/640 or higher. You'll need to play around with it and see what it looks like in your photo editing software when you crop it.

There is probably a menu setting to disable the touch screen when shooting, but keep it turned on (touchable) for playback. Ok, i looked in the manual, it's under menu button -> wrench -> touch controls. I set it for playback only, as I'm looking at the screen away from my face at those times.

See what you can find for the 18-200 DX VR. I think you'd use that a lot more than the 10-20. You probably won't use the 18-55 AF-P any more unless you're optimizing for weight or size or want a 2nd lens to keep in your pocket with the 70-300.

Marc

At the moment I am shooting jpeg Fine as I don’t understand RAW sufficiently and don’t have an editing program. My son shoots RAW and reckons, if you’re not careful, you just get mountains of RAW files that you don’t get round to editing/processing.

 

[Apodidae49]

There is probably a menu setting to disable the touch screen when shooting, but keep it turned on (touchable) for playback. Ok, i looked in the manual, it's under menu button -> wrench -> touch controls. I set it for playback only, as I'm looking at the screen away from my face at those times.

Marc

Thanks for that helpful hint, I’ve disabled touchscreen apart from in playback. Am I right in assuming that you can’t alter shooting settings on the info screen with the touchscreen disabled? It’ll be a minor inconvenience to re-enable the screen to alter settings rather than have a beep every time my nose touches the screen though.

 

[marcsantacurz]

Thanks for that helpful hint, I’ve disabled touchscreen apart from in playback. Am I right in assuming that you can’t alter shooting settings on the info screen with the touchscreen disabled? It’ll be a minor inconvenience to re-enable the screen to alter settings rather than have a beep every time my nose touches the screen though.

There's another setting to disable beep (I always do that!).

I tend to use the arrow keys to select things on the Info menu, though really I don't use the Info menu that much as it requires looking away from the viewfinder. I'm more of a knob and button guy.

Marc