Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
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Tell us moreFor instance Turdidae and Tyrannidae😊
Tell us moreFor instance Turdidae and Tyrannidae😊
OK so the core Tyrannidae is intact with all represented clades less than 15 my old. Perhaps I should have written Tyrannides.Tell us more
You suggested a lot of split?OK so the core Tyrannidae is intact with all represented clades less than 15 my old. Perhaps I should have written Tyrannides.
Anyway Pipromorphidae and Tachurisidae separate - no surprises!
Platyrinchidae has a split around 18mya between Platyrinchus and Neopipo
Tityridae has a similar but slightly older split between Pachyramphus and Schiffornis
Both interesting!
Cotingidae is represented by Snowornis, Pyroderus, Phytotoma, & Ampelioides. Each branch is older than 15 myo.
There are other interesting suboscine split ages but I'm not typing all that out!😄
On to the Turdidae
The oldest branch is around 20 myo - Sialia + Grandala
Next is at 19 mya between (Myadestes + Neocossyphus) and the rest of Turdidae
Then between Sialia & Grandala at around 17 mya
Neocossyphus & Myadestes split around 15 mya
Core turdids represented by Turdus, Zoothera & Catharus all separate at ages younger than 13mya
There's lots more interesting stuff but I think it would be easier to distribute photos
I did and on checking the book it appears that I was looking at the unconstrained tree in error earlier this morning.You suggested a lot of split?
I would love to see your entire classification of passerines 😏I did and on checking the book it appears that I was looking at the unconstrained tree in error earlier this morning.
The book's main results are derived from the constrained tree.
If you were to use the unconstrained ages for the core Tyrannidae there would be four clades older than 14 my which potentially could be carved off. In the constrained tree they're all younger than this age.
The other details I posted still stand.
Other families affected include Thamnophilidae, Grallariidae, Rhinocryptidae, Dendrocolaptidae, Furnariidae, Climacteridae, Maluridae, Acanthizidae, Melanocharitidae, Pachycephalidae, Cracticidae, Vireonidae, Petroicidae (4 hugely old divergences!!!), Alaudidae, Locustellidae, Pycnonotidae, Sturnidae, Muscicapidae, Nectariniidae and so on up to the 9-primes.
Timings-wise most of these fall within the range of wiggle-room that could be used to either split or combine depending on your inclination🙂
It's very much a work in progress but I will tidy up a copy and email it to you👍I would love to see your entire classification of passerines 😏
SameI would love to see your entire classification of passerines 😏
It's very much a work in progress but I will tidy up a copy and email it to you👍
I wouldn't be so extreme, it would seem coherent to me to recognize 3 families: Rollulidae, Pavonidae and Phasianidae"Xenoperdixidae" (African Highland Partridges), Rollulidae (Asian Hill Partridges), Argusianidae (Arguses), Pavonidae (Peacocks), "Tropicoperdicidae" (Peacock-Partridges), Polyplectronidae (Peacock-Pheasants), Gallidae (Chickens), Coturnicidae (Old World Quail), Lerwidae (Snow Partridge), Ithaginidae (Blood Pheasant)
From a utility standpoint, it would make it easier to use tribes if each of these were there own separate familiesI wouldn't be so extreme, it would seem coherent to me to recognize 3 families: Rollulidae, Pavonidae and Phasianidae
It’s a fantastic book! Well worth itI just bit the bullet and ordered a copy of the Passeriformes radiation book. Hope its worth the $$$!
Family divisions are extremely extreme
seems like the most "conservative" improvement over the current system.
I think with birds like parrots and raptors –which have a long life-span– a more conservative approach is preferable.
The age of Vegavis iaai Clarke, Tambussi, Noriega, Erickson et Ketcham, 2005 is clear: Late Cretaceous, Middle to Late Maastrihtian, 68,0-66,0 MYa.Plus dating of fossils, which are sparse and very poorly defined (think Vegavis), literally two bumps in one poorly preserved bone change the whole system.