Time for a Pipit ID again (1 Viewer)

[Bluetail]

Birding Scotland vol 3(2) has pictures of a bird which turned up at Rattray Head in March 2000 which was indeed initially thought to be RT Pipit. The throat was quite brick red but apart from that all other features pointed to Meadow.

I had one like that getting on for 20 years ago. Never seen another since.

I've never wrestled much with Pockit subspecies, but I thought breeding-plumaged Scandinavian Rockits had very little streaking on the breast?

Jason

 

[James Armstrong]

While we are upon the subject of pipit id. I thought now was a good time to ask a question or two about tree pipits which I've been saving up. On the 13.9.03 fellow member Dave G and I thought we'd seen what could have been a tree pipit at Cliffe Pools, N. Kent. Regardless of what it looked like could it have been a theoretical probability for the date and place ?- much confused about their movements. Plus what do you experienced birders look for to clinch a tree pipit as opposed to meadow pipit id? Advice would be much appreciated.

 

[James Armstrong]

Stop press, on consulting my notes - we thought it could have been a WATER pipit and they are the ones whose migratory habits I'm not sure about as there seem to be varying views in the guides.

 

[Bluetail]

Go first for the flank streaks. Bold streaks all the way down the side of the flanks = Meadow Pipit. On Tree Pipit the flank streaks are very thin and faint - the heavy streaking effectively seems to stop at the breast sides. This seems reliable for at least 99% of birds. Also the crown on Tree Pipit appears (to my eyes at any rate) to have a more neatly capped appearance. The breast streaks on Tree Pipit are larger and fewer than on Meadow. The last two points are probably of limited use until you've already learnt to distinguish them though.

Jason

 

[robinm]

James: Looking at the Kent Bird Report for 2000 (the latest edition) the earliest winter water pipits were at the end of October. Mid-september does sound a bit early to me.

 

[Fulmar]

Thanks for all the comments everybody! I conclude that the majority vote is for Meadow Pipit.

Although it doesn't add much I think, I have included three copies of the second photo I made of it, one with the surrounding grass included to see the "habitat", one full shot and one crop, and a crop of the original picture. I can also add that the location was right on the coast, say between 10-20m from where you descend to the beach and the rocks. That was one of the reasons I was thinking of Rock Pipit.

Peter

 

[James Armstrong]

Thanks for the info Jason and Robin. Nice pictures Peter!

 

[Jane Turner]

By pathetic little mipit, I wasn't putting the species down. It a feature of Mipits that they look feeble and apologetic, whereas Rock Pipits are in your face..thrush like and bouncy.

It helps with separating from Tree Pipit too. In addition to the plumage features described above, Tripits look bolder and more confident. In flight they are less hesitant and look longer (pointier) winged.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

By pathetic little mipit, I wasn't putting the species down. It a feature of Mipits that they look feeble and apologetic, whereas Rock Pipits are in your face..thrush like and bouncy.

It helps with separating from Tree Pipit too. In addition to the plumage features described above, Tripits look bolder and more confident. In flight they are less hesitant and look longer (pointier) winged.

Any obs. on Water Pipit, Jane?

I recall one that would flush at quite a distance, wasn't averse to flying off a couple of hundred yards; or perching in treetops!

Andy.

 

[Jane Turner]

Actually I think that landing in trees is almost diagnostic of Water Pipit. Flush a Rock Pipit from the edge of the marsh at Neston... it "fisst's" at you.... towers off like a Temminckj's Stint and comes down somewhere in Wales. Water Pipits seem to like the tops of hedges. They often arc round and land behind you, inland and on bushes. I'm sure some Wapits do the dissappear onto the Marsh thing, but I'm sure Rock Pipits wouldn't do the bush trick. I have a pic of a littoralis Rockit that shows how bold and un Mipit-like they are.... bear with me.

 

[Jane Turner]

This is a probable littoralis Rock Pipit in winter plumage. It looks almost like a thrush in its stance. Bold, head up... not cringing like a typical Meadow Pipit. The Bill is also much heavier than a Mipit's. In spring it would have a greyer mantle and even less marking on its mantle. The breast streaking would probably not change too much, though it would most likely get a pinky flush to the upper breast.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Regarding Water Pipits at the favoured site round here (Warton Bank) they perch on the fenceposts on the marsh readily, whereas the few Rock Pipits that occur here very rarely do. At this site they are pushed towards the observer by the incoming tide, elsewhere my experience with a couple on ditches is that they will fly very long distances either ahead of back behind you and further than a Rock Pipit would in the same situation. The Macmillan guide by Vinicombe et al describes this as typical.

I find quite a few presumed Scan Rocks have reduced streaking in spring, and round here they are often still moulting when they move through.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Thanks for the confirmation, Jane and Stephen, don't get many Water Pipits in inland Gwent!

Andy.

 

[Osprey]

For my untrained eye, I would also go for Rock Pipit for Jeff's photo: dark legs, dark bill, greyish appearance......

Peter

Agreed, dark grey legs and a hint of grey outertail feathers.

Rock pipit UNLESS the film or digi was not at the correct exposure.

Just because it's sitting on a bramble branch doesn't help. Maybe more info what be better such a jizz.

Meadow pipits in my neck of the woods don't have grey legs.

Osprey

 

[Osprey]

Go first for the flank streaks. Bold streaks all the way down the side of the flanks = Meadow Pipit. On Tree Pipit the flank streaks are very thin and faint - the heavy streaking effectively seems to stop at the breast sides. This seems reliable for at least 99% of birds. Also the crown on Tree Pipit appears (to my eyes at any rate) to have a more neatly capped appearance. The breast streaks on Tree Pipit are larger and fewer than on Meadow. The last two points are probably of limited use until you've already learnt to distinguish them though.

Jason

Hows about looking at the back toe if possible? Meadow is a lot longer than other pipits. I'd prefer this diagnostic feature. Better still their calls.

Ospreyu

 

[Bluetail]

Hows about looking at the back toe if possible? Meadow is a lot longer than other pipits. I'd prefer this diagnostic feature. Better still their calls.

With the views I usually get of pipits I find the hind claw impossible to see and, though diagnostic, I don't think it's essential for IDing the birds. I agree call is best - once you know them.

Jason

 

[Osprey]

With the views I usually get of pipits I find the hind claw impossible to see and, though diagnostic, I don't think it's essential for IDing the birds. I agree call is best - once you know them.

Jason

I get a phobia when it comes to the little brown jobs and a few more species! I dread doing a coastal watch as I live inland so I've got to wrack the brain cells every time. I do have this tendency to not ID any bird that I'm not 100% sure of

Osprey