To Cull or not to Cull (1 Viewer)

[Peewit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7212706.stm

I found this article in the local press today.

Back to the subject of Grey squirrels, and alternatives to remove them without killing them as such.

 

[Farnboro John]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7212706.stm

I found this article in the local press today.

Back to the subject of Grey squirrels, and alternatives to remove them without killing them as such.

Interesting that in the face of actual evidence of effective culling the bunny huggers still say it can't be made effective.

Also interesting that the newspaper hasn't got anyone bright enough to see that a multi-track approach - oral contraceptives in non-Red Squirrel areas i.e. nearly all of mainland Britain - combined with killing, would be effective and would not expose Reds to the contraceptive.

As for the concept of removing Grey Squirrels without killing them as such, what are you going to do with an enormous heap of non-killed removed squirrels?

Plus the expected mention that Reds damage trees and predate nests as do Greys. Nobody was denying it - just preferring native Reds to invading Greys!

Get on with the cull asap, or it will be too late and the softy lobby will be crying cos the Reds are all gone.

John

 

[Barred Wobbler]

As someone who lives in Northumberland I can only applaud the efforts of those engaged in the cull. I am however amazed at the number of grey squirrels involved, since the county was entirely free of greys only a few years ago.

It is the very existance of the grey squirrel that is the problem and they are moving into new areas, wiping out reds through population expansion. How anyone can think that it is in any way solving the problem to trap them alive to release elsewhere beats me. They would just displace more greys back into the depopulated area. Wasted effort at best, criminally neglecting the existance of the reds at worst.

It's the same as trying to push water uphill.

 

[Amarillo]

Surely its far too late for culling to be a realistic option?

At the end of the day, grey squirrels will eventually replace reds in Britain, which is a shame, but ecologically they fill the same niche and the red is widespread all across the continent.

I think there are more important things to spend precious conservation funds on.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

I don't.

I'm not a defeatist.

 

[Amarillo]

Its not being defeatist, its being realistic.

Humans have damaged the native ecology in many ways. In an ideal world of course we would get rid of grey squirrels, but there are limits to what we can put right, so surely we should use what resources we have, as efficiently as we can?

 

[Barred Wobbler]

When was the last time you heard of someone ticking a passenger pigeon?

Maybe down in Oxford you are so used to seeing grey squirrels that you think they are part of the normal scene. Here, thankfully we aren't and if anything can be done to save British red squirrels it's worthwhile, even if it means that the walkways at a few reserves may not be as weed-free as some would like.

If using resources to save a native species from national extinction is a waste, then frankly we should just throw in the towel and stick to tending the flowers in the garden. Thankfully, I don't see it as a waste, and if anyone wants my help to help keep Northumberland free of grey squirrels, I'd be pleased if they would contact me because I am certainly happy to provide my resources for this cause in whatever way I can.

 

[Amarillo]

If using resources to save a native species from national extinction is a waste, then frankly we should just throw in the towel and stick to tending the flowers in the garden. Thankfully, I don't see it as a waste, and if anyone wants my help to help keep Northumberland free of grey squirrels, I'd be pleased if they would contact me because I am certainly happy to provide my resources for this cause in whatever way I can.

Its a waste if we use up conservation resources trying to eliminate grey squirrels and not only fail to do that, but also fail to save the species we could have saved if we had prioritised better.

If it took a year to kill a third of the Northumberland population, how on earth are we going to get rid of them across the whole country where there are millions of them?

 

[Peewit]

When was the last time you heard of someone ticking a passenger pigeon?

Maybe down in Oxford you are so used to seeing grey squirrels that you think they are part of the normal scene. Here, thankfully we aren't and if anything can be done to save British red squirrels it's worthwhile, even if it means that the walkways at a few reserves may not be as weed-free as some would like.

If using resources to save a native species from national extinction is a waste, then frankly we should just throw in the towel and stick to tending the flowers in the garden. Thankfully, I don't see it as a waste, and if anyone wants my help to help keep Northumberland free of grey squirrels, I'd be pleased if they would contact me because I am certainly happy to provide my resources for this cause in whatever way I can.

Alan: I agree with what you are saying here. I have got to admit I am plagued with Grey Squirrels in Bedford (close to Oxford). I miss seeing the Reds as I did in Scotland.

I had one Grey at my bird feeder this morning, and I went out to chase it off and it sat and stared at me - not in the slightest afraid of me. They are humanised to the point they are pets!!! grr.. . I have had up to 3 of these rats at one time
I was unhappy to see that my neighbours on the left of me have a feeder in the shape of a coconut, and the Grey Squirrels there are having a field day. It is not an issue I would bring up with my neighbours as we get along fine and it may rock the boat with them.

Many people who are not been given the up to date facts about Grey Squirrels, will think they are sweet, endearing, and feed them through ignorance of supporting their cause. Take the tail away and what do you have - a rat. Tree rats comes to mind to me each time.

To me too many people are supporting Greys, and they need to be re-educated about them. Feeding Grey's should be treated on the same level as feeding Feral pigeons in my eyes. No feeding signs in parks and public places. :C
It all comes down to education education, and more education.
Lots of fly posting, and publicity, and it will put the message across about not supporting Grey Squirrels on any level.

Maybe a yearly public survey like as The RSPB would shed a lot more light on the spread of Greys over Reds. I know that there are local sites for saving Squirrels, but one like the RSPB would be more suitable to the cause. Use conservation funds for this as I believe it is a good cause. The longer it is left the worse the problem gets.

To put money into saving the Reds is the only way forward here and treating the subject as serious. I would love my hard earned taxes to used in this manner rather than wasted on other things which are not feasible by the Goverment (not to go into that though). :C

Amarillo: I can see where you are coming from too. To me I think the amount of time that has gone by adds to the weight of the problem.
It should have been sorted a long time ago, when the problem was recognised as it is now.
Better late than never to me. Got to try something before it is too late.

It just needs some carefully planned thinking here.

 

[Corax67]

Better late than never to me. Got to try something before it is too late

Well said - we at least have to try to set the balance straight for surely it is better to have tried and failed than never tried at all.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Its a waste if we use up conservation resources trying to eliminate grey squirrels and not only fail to do that, but also fail to save the species we could have saved if we had prioritised better.

If it took a year to kill a third of the Northumberland population, how on earth are we going to get rid of them across the whole country where there are millions of them?

There were a lot more passenger pigeons. Much good it did them.

 

[Amarillo]

Well said - we at least have to try to set the balance straight for surely it is better to have tried and failed than never tried at all.

not if we use conservation resources that could have been more successfully used elsewhere, that was the point I was trying to get across!

 

[kingwolf]

I agree - also it is a natural "organic" meat that could be put on to the market, therefore paying for the cull.

Also I thought that the Red Squirrels dont acctually damage trees bar when shortage of food, unlike greys who ring trees as part of their diet.

As for Grey's not being scared of humans - that was why they were brought over in the first place!

 

[Perdix]

A total eradication would be, to say the least, impractical. The large number of greys in towns and cities would mean that culling would have to take place in the public gaze, which would guarantee overdramatic tabloid storylines and uproar across the various animal rights organisations.

A cull would be much easier in rural areas, where foresters, farmers, gamekeepers etc would be happy to comply.

I think a good solution for the next few years would be to try and make Scotland, Cumbria and Northumberland "Grey Free" -I have heard an opinion that putting a bounty on Grey's tails would help encourage further culling. This should be done before attempting a cull in other areas.

 

[bitterntwisted]

..ecologically they fill the same niche and the red is widespread all across the continent.

For how long? Greys are rapidly expanding their range in Italy... http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/land/2001/00000016/00000005/00334373

 

[Farnboro John]

I don't think you would have the problem with the public that you anticipate. Of course the lunatic fringe would object o being nasty to fluffy animals but the hell with them.

Get the shooters on board, perhaps they would appreciate being given encouragement to let loose on something. Trap city squirrels: the traps could be in park thickets out of sight of the public, dreys could be destroyed overnight when the cities are quieter (and the squirrels would be bound to be home). Falconers or more likely austringers could give live demonstrations of their birds in action.

Use the contraceptives wherever there are no Reds to take the replenishment and outward population pressure out of the Greys.

And stop talking about misuse of conservation funds, this ought to be, like the Coypu effort, a Government funded initiative. Cut something useless that ought to be totally private sector like the Arts. Bet that would free up enough.

John

 

[Amarillo]

For how long? Greys are rapidly expanding their range in Italy... http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/land/2001/00000016/00000005/00334373

I'd forgotten there was a population on the continent.

Why is this kind of thing never dealt with early on? We've seen what happens when grey squirrels become established in Europe so why let the same thing happen on the mainland?

For obvious reasons I would say it is far more important to eliminate this Italian population than the British one.

 

[Bonsaibirder]

This is an interesting discussion. I have just returned from New Zealand, where I was amazed in equal amounts by:

1] how much damage was allowed to happen by introduced predators (cats, rats, possums, stoats etc.) before something was done.

and

2] how hard they are working now to put things right - culling in targeted areas really has worked.

Cheers,

Its not being defeatist, its being realistic.

Humans have damaged the native ecology in many ways. In an ideal world of course we would get rid of grey squirrels, but there are limits to what we can put right, so surely we should use what resources we have, as efficiently as we can?

 

[Peewit]

This is an interesting discussion. I have just returned from New Zealand, where I was amazed in equal amounts by:

1] how much damage was allowed to happen by introduced predators (cats, rats, possums, stoats etc.) before something was done.

and

2] how hard they are working now to put things right - culling in targeted areas really has worked.

Cheers,

Hi Steve

So after your experience in New Zealand. What is the best route for the removal/reduction of Greys in the UK. How was it funded in NZ?

Perdix has mentioned here: I think a good solution for the next few years would be to try and make Scotland, Cumbria and Northumberland "Grey Free".

This would mean - experiment with a smaller area first?

From your experience of NZ, is this the way forward for us now?

 

[Isurus]

I think a big cull effort could certainly work in terms of protecting reds - total extermination may not be possible but a really big dint in the population shouldn't be too difficult.