Turdus lherminieri Lafresnaye, 1844 (1 Viewer)

[Taphrospilus]

Cichlherminia Bonaparte, 1854 OD t.38 (1854) - Comptes rendus hebdomadaires des séances de l'Académie des sciences - Biodiversity Heritage Library

Deux autre espèces américaines de Turdi veri de mon Conspectus: T. herminieri Lafr. et densirostris, Vieill., forment mon genre Cichlherminia.

Turdus lherminieri Lafresnaye, 1844OD 1844 - Revue zoologique - Biodiversity Heritage Library

Quoique nous eussions déjà ces trois espèces, que nous devions à l'obligeance de M. L'Herminier, avant l'affreuse catastrophe de la Pointe-à-Pitre, nous ne les avions pas publiées parce qu'il nous avait confié son projet de publier une Faune ornithologique de la Guadeloupe.

The Eponym Dictionary of Birds

A comprehensive dictionary listing all the people whose names are commemorated in the English and scientific names of birds.Birdwatchers often come across bird names that include a person's name, either in the vernacular (English) name or latinised in the scientific nomenclature. Such names are...

books.google.de

Forest Trush genus Cichlherminia Bonaparte, 1854
4 Forest Thrush Cichlherminia lherminieri Lafresnaye, 1844 [Syn. Turdus lherminieri]
Dr Ferdinand Joseph L'Herminier (1802–1866) was a French osteologist, botanist, zoologist and ornithologist, and Director of the hospital on Guadeloupe. His father was Félix Louis L'Herminier (q.v.) All their notes and specimens were destroyed in an earthquake (1843). The genus name is made up of his surname combined with the Greek word for thrush: kikhle.

The Key to Scientific Names - Birds of the World

Species accounts for all the birds of the world.

birdsoftheworld.org

Dr Ferdinand Joseph l'Herminier (1802-1866) French osteologist, ornithologist on Guadeloupe (Turdus)

Cichlherminia

(Turdidae; syn. Turdus Ϯ Forest Thrush T. lherminieri) Gr. κιχλη kikhlē thrush; Félix Louis l'Herminier (1779-1833) French military chemist, naturalist on Guadeloupe (cf. specific name Turdus lherminieri de La Fresnaye, 1844); "Deux autres espèces américaines de Turdi veri de mon Conspectus: T. herminieri, Lafr., et densirostris, Vieill., forment mon genre Cichlherminia." (Bonaparte 1854); "Cichlherminia Bonaparte, 1854, Compt. Rend. Acad. Sci. Paris, 38, p. 2. Type, by subsequent designation (Gray, 1855, Cat. Gen. Subgen. Birds, p. 43), Turdus lherminieri Lafresnaye." (Ripley in Peters, 1964, X, p. 162).
Var. Cinchlerminia.

Here what we can find in Wikipedia Ferdinand Joseph L'Herminier — Wikipédia

About his birth Bach Viewer - FRAD971_1E5_052_105_001_C.jpg p. 10/15 I would say he was born 5 Floréal XI. Isn't it the 25. April 1803? Not sure if we can find the full record.
I did not check yet his death (according Wikipedia 12 December 1866 in Pointe-à-Pitre)

I would also go as well at Cichlherminia with Ferdinand Joseph l'Herminier and not with his father. Dito may Herminierus Lesson, 1843 1843 - Revue zoologique - Biodiversity Heritage Library for him?

It might be worth to check as well syn. Cinclocerthia tremula, syn. Onychoprion fuscatus, syn. Parkesia noveboracensis, ?syn. Platyrinchus platyrhynchos) mentioned in BOW Key
Melanerpes herminieri (Lesson, RP 1830) OD t.1 (1831) - Traité d'ornithologie, ou, Tableau méthodique des ordres, sous-ordres, familles, tribus, genres, sous-genres et races d'oiseaux - Biodiversity Heritage Library
Puffinus lherminieri Lesson, RP 1839 1839 - Revue zoologique - Biodiversity Heritage Library

Feel free to correct me and/or add any additional of value to this thread.

 

[James Jobling]

Thanks Martin,
Based on your note and Barbara & Richard Mearns, 1992, Audubon to Xantus, pp. 286-288, I have adjusted The Key entries Cichlherminia, herminieri, Herminierus and lherminieri. The Mearns's conclusions are that only Cichlherminia and Turdus lherminieri can be confidently assigned to the younger l'Herminier, with the other names open to interpretation. Because of their earlier dates, I conclude that the Melanerpes and Puffinus may be associated with the father, and, similarly, the later eponyms with the son, who became slightly more famous in French circles.

 

[Taphrospilus]

PS:
Anthus lherminieri Lesson RP, 1839 1839 - Revue zoologique - Biodiversity Heritage Library
Platyrinchus lherminieri Des Murs, 1851? Oiseaux pt.4 - Encyclopédie d'histoire naturelle - Biodiversity Heritage Library Not sure where the 1840 Lesson is to find.
Anoüs lherminieri Lesson, 1847 Description de mammifères et d'oiseaux récemment découverts ; précédée d'un Tableau sur les races humaines / par M. Lesson,... | Gallica Here he mentioned a docteur L'Herminier. Was Félix Louis l'Herminier a Dr.?


I would still go for 1803 as birth year.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

G.H.C. [Généalogie et Histoire de la Caraïbe] Bulletin 75 (October 1995, p. 1440–1441):

Le naturaliste LHERMINIER
[...]

(here, and here, all in French)

Hopefully of some help/use?

/B

 

[Taphrospilus]

What does that mean? Born 20.6.1802 and 25.4.1803? (Björns Link)

o 1er messidor XI (20 6 1802) d Basse-Terre 5 floréal XI
(25 4 1803);

Léonore Recherche - Base de données Léonore

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

What does that mean? ...

No idea. French is way off my home turf ...

I just happened to find those two pages in the G.H.C. Bulletin, and thought it all might/could be relevant.

Thus, take it for what it's worth (if anything at all).

 

[l_raty]

Platyrinchus lherminieri Des Murs, 1851? Oiseaux pt.4 - Encyclopédie d'histoire naturelle - Biodiversity Heritage Library Not sure where the 1840 Lesson is to find.

It's 1839 as well, actually :

1839 - Revue zoologique - Biodiversity Heritage Library

The Biodiversity Heritage Library works collaboratively to make biodiversity literature openly available to the world as part of a global biodiversity community.

www.biodiversitylibrary.org

Anoüs lherminieri Lesson, 1847 Description de mammifères et d'oiseaux récemment découverts ; précédée d'un Tableau sur les races humaines / par M. Lesson,... | Gallica Here he mentioned a docteur L'Herminier. Was Félix Louis l'Herminier a Dr.?

He also says that the bird was given the name of "le médecin savant qui nous l'a fait connaître" = the learned physician who made it known to us.
I'd say this ought to be Ferdinand Joseph indeed.

What does that mean? Born 20.6.1802 and 25.4.1803? (Björns Link)


Léonore Recherche - Base de données Léonore

Born ('o') 20.6.1802, declared ('d') 25.4.1803 ?
It's usual that this type of table gives the date of the record (rather than the actual date of the recorded event), because this is what is most useful to retrieve the full record in the original register. Unfortunately, the original register doesn't seem to be present in the online archive. But Léonore seems to agree with 20 Jun 1802.

 

[Taphrospilus]

Isn't Anoüs lherminieri a synonym for Anous stolidus? So not in the key?

Where to find Syn. Cinclocerthia tremula?

 

[l_raty]

Isn't Anoüs lherminieri a synonym for Anous stolidus? So not in the key?

The plumage description sounds rather like that of a juvenile Sooty Tern to me (i.e., "syn. Onychoprion fuscatus" in the Key). Size is a bit odd, though (too small).

 

[l_raty]

Where to find Syn. Cinclocerthia tremula?

Thriothorus l'Herminieri Lesson 1843 :

1843 - Revue zoologique - Biodiversity Heritage Library

The Biodiversity Heritage Library works collaboratively to make biodiversity literature openly available to the world as part of a global biodiversity community.

www.biodiversitylibrary.org

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Thanks Martin,
Based on your note and Barbara & Richard Mearns, 1992, Audubon to Xantus, pp. 286-288, I have adjusted The Key entries Cichlherminia, herminieri, Herminierus and lherminieri. The Mearns's conclusions are that only Cichlherminia and Turdus lherminieri can be confidently assigned to the younger l'Herminier, with the other names open to interpretation. Because of their earlier dates, I conclude that the Melanerpes and Puffinus may be associated with the father, and, similarly, the later eponyms with the son, who became slightly more famous in French circles.

PS: ...

I would still go for 1803 as birth year.

Note that the normally very trustworthy Mearns couple, in their new and revised Edition of Biographies for Birdwatchers (2022), has the Father and Son (in volume 1, on pp.187–189) as:

Félix Louis L’Herminier (1779–1833) and Ferdinand Joseph L’Herminier (1802–1866)

Félix Louis L’Herminier was born in Paris on 18 May 1779. ... [... ]... He died in Paris on 25 October 1833.
[... ]
Four years after Félix first settled in Guadeloupe, his son Ferdinand was born, at Basse Terre, on 20 June 1802. ... [... ] ... He died at the age of 64, on 11 December 1866, after a two-month illness contracted towards the end of a devastating cholera epidemic that swept through the island.

Noteworthy is also the following part:

Which of the two L’Herminiers was Lesson thinking of when he named the shearwater in 1839? The date suggests that the younger L’Herminier collected the specimen, if it was newly acquired directly from the Antilles, but it could just as easily have come from the elder L’Herminier having languished for years in the Rochefort Museum amongst other similar-looking shearwaters or been received from another naturalist by exchange. When the species was named, Félix, the elder L’Herminier, had been dead for six years but he was still well-known in French natural history circles because of his Guadeloupe specimens. ... [... ] ... Although it seems more likely that the shearwater was dedicated to Ferdinand, the younger L’Herminier, the evidence remains inconclusive [*].

Enjoy!

Björn

---

*(Footnote No. 5):

Palmer (1931: 199) does not mention the elder L’Herminier simply stating: “The name, the museum, and the type locality all indicate that the collector of the bird was L’herminier [sic], a young zoologist of the island of Guadeloupe, who had recently arrived in France to prosecute his studies. Ferdinand J. L’Herminier, in whose honor the Shearwater was named, was born ....” None of Ferdinand’s biographical sources mention any trip to France just prior to 1839 “to prosecute his studies” but he did arrive there as a student about 20 years before the shearwater was named. Olson (2013) goes into more detail about the nomenclatural history of Audubon’s Shearwater and makes a more convincing case for Ferdinand L’Herminier.

In my World/mind "convincing" isn't equal of necessarily true, nor (a solid) truth, this far I´d say that in this particular case [i.e. (Audubon's) Shearwater Puffinus lherminieri LESSON 1839] it indeed "remains inconclusive" (that is, without knowing, nor understanding much French, of course). 🙄

Also note that Barbara Mearns & Richard Mearns, through and through in this new Book, writes their Surname with two Capital letters, as L’Herminier.

/B

 

[James Jobling]

Anous lherminieri Lesson, 1847, is listed by Hellmayr & Conover, 1948, Cat. Birds Americas, Pt. I (3), p. 315, as a synonym of Sterna fuscata (now Onychoprion fuscatus, the Sooty Tern).

 

[Taphrospilus]

I am wondering if Félix Louis L’Herminier was really a naturalist?

I think what's written in Wikipedia Félix Louis L'Herminier - Wikipedia may simply wrong:

He published several works on ornithology, including a treatise on the role and function of the sternum in birds, titled Recherches sur l'appareil sternal des oiseaux, considéré sous le double rapport de l'ostéologie et la myologie, suivies d'un essai sur la distribution de cette classe de vertébrés (1827).

If I look at Verzeichniss der Bücher über Naturgeschichte welche in Deutschland, Scandinavien, Holland, England, Frankreich, Italien und Spanien in den Jahren 1700-1846 erschienen sind the author is Lherminier F.J. (but I couldn't find Volume 4 of Annales de la Société Linnéenne de Lyon yet).

Is there any further evidence that he was not simply and only a military person?

OK Freshwater Fishes of South Carolina or Annales de la Société entomologique de France may count for him to be a naturalist.

P.S. While seraching for him I came accross L'Etymologie des noms d'oiseaux

Pierre Cabard, Bernard Chauvet: L'Etymologie des noms d'oiseaux, EAN : 9782840000105​

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

I am wondering if Félix Louis L’Herminier was really a naturalist?
...
Is there any further evidence that he was not simply and only a military person?
...

Wouldn't it be odd finding a "simply and only a military person" that had "... languished for years in the Rochefort Museum amongst other similar-looking shearwaters".

/B

PS. I'm a bit surprised that you now (?) have come across L'Etymologie des noms d'oiseaux, as we've dealt with that Book, and its different Editions, several times earlier (like; here, here, here, here ... and onwards/elsewhere).

And, by the way, your link to L'Etymologie des noms d'oiseaux takes us to the 2022 Edition, by Cabard alone.

​

 

[Taphrospilus]

Anyway I think the publications in Wikipedia are assigned to the wrong L'Herminier (as we can see also Bull. Soc. Sc. Nat. Ouest de la France, nouvelle série, tome 35 (3) - PDF Téléchargement Gratuit )

In this publication we can find a picture of a bust from him at the cemetery in Pointe-à-Pitre.

See Recherches sur l'appareil sternal des oiseaux, considéré sous le double rapport de l'ostéologie et de la myologie; suivies d'un essai contenant une distribution nouvelle de ces vertébrés, .... par m. le docteur F.-J. Lherminier, ...

Both are also mentioned v.3 (1981) [Authors Lh-O] - Taxonomic literature - Biodiversity Heritage Library

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Also note that the documents in Léonore (see link in post #5), just like in the Book by Mearns & Mearns (2022), writes the surname as "L’Herminier" (beginning with double Capitals), contrary to the Key's "l’Herminier" ...



Which one is the most correct version?

In my MS I have (the Son) as "Ferdinand L'Herminier" (mentioned only briefly, in context, as the collector of Lesson's type specimen of Puffinus lherminieri [alt. "Pufflnus" (sic) "Lherminieri", as it was written/typed in the OD].

Also note that the same Paper/OD also includes "Anthus Lherminieri" (on p.101), as well as "Platyrhyncus Lherminieri" (on p.104), both beginning with Capital letters.

Grateful for only assistance on this tiny, certain detail (l'H... versus L'H...).

/B

 

[l_raty]

Grateful for only assistance on this tiny, certain detail (l'H... versus L'H...).

In current French usage, the first letter of a personal name is always capitalized, hence the name must be written "L'Herminier". Back in the 19th C, however, usage was not really fixed yet, and both "L'Herminier" and "l'Herminier" can be found in documents of this time.
(I don't think that "L'herminier", as written by Palmer 1931, has ever been an option. If, however, as is sometimes done, the apostrophe was to be omitted and the name made a single word, the spelling would become "Lherminier".)

(NB - the nobiliary particle 'de', on the other hand, remains in principle uncapitalized, because it is not understood as being integral part of a name.)

 

[James Jobling]

Anthus lherminieri Lesson, 1839 = Parkesia noveboracensis (Gmelin, 1789)

 

[mb1848]

Anthus lherminieri Lesson, 1839 = Parkesia noveboracensis (Gmelin, 1789)
Anthus was a good guess as waterthrush wag their tails but are small.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

In current French usage, the first letter of a personal name is always capitalized, hence the name must be written "L'Herminier". Back in the 19th C, however, usage was not really fixed yet, and both "L'Herminier" and "l'Herminier" can be found in documents of this time.
...

Thanks, Laurent!

Thereby, in my MS (of today, by modern standards), I'll keep him as "Ferdinand L'Herminier".