Unknown Coastal Birds (2 Viewers)

[birdbath]

Hello Again! I saw a few birds on a recent trip to Tadoussac (Quebec, along St. Lawrence & Saguenay rivers), and here are four that I can't ID. I have 2 pics of each bird. Here are my thoughts:

1. Big Black Bird: Double Crested Cormorant?
2. Brown Bird: Spotted Sandpiper?
3. Grey Bird (a fair bit of white also): ???
4. Small Black Bird: Looks like a crow but I assume it is something else?

I know the pictures aren't great and some of the birds are far away, but it's the best I could do. I'm hoping some of you might be able to ID a few of them. Thanks!

 

[Butty]

1-2. Double-crested cormorants.
3-6, 8. Big gulls.
7. American crows.

 

[birdbath]

1-2. Double-crested cormorants.
3-6, 8. Big gulls.
7. American crows.

What do mean by "Big gulls"? Are you referring to Great Black-backed, or Herring?

And what about the speckled brown bird with the long bill (Brown Bird 2 photo)?

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

The brown specked bird is a Gull in first year plumage; they take four years to reach adult plumage.

 

[birdbath]

The brown specked bird is a Gull in first year plumage; they take four years to reach adult plumage.

Ok that makes sense but can you tell what species of gull it is?

And can anyone identify the "Grey Bird"? Is it the same species of gull as the brown spotted gull in the water?

Thanks.

 

[lou salomon]

juvenile American Herring Gull for pics 3 and 4 (not identifiable but likely the same species in the air).

 

[birdbath]

juvenile American Herring Gull for pics 3 and 4 (not identifiable but likely the same species in the air).

Terrific, thanks for the ID!

 

[birdbath]

Is the American Herring Gull a separate species of Herring Gull? I read on Wikipedia that the American Ornithological Society considers the American Herring Gull to be a subspecies of Herring Gull.

 

[01101001]

the IOC considers it a seperate species (not without reason): BOW (Birds of the World) – IOC World Bird List; Clements does not: October 2022 – Clements Checklist

(American) Herring Gull is one of the big gulls (Larus gulls), which are infamously difficult to seperate, especially the browner juveniles and immatures. In order to identify them from a picture, you'd usually need great resolution, great skill or--in some cases--both. It's still doable, but requires experience, and some birders more or less skip this group for simplicity, convenience or out of personal preference (apart from full species, you also have to consider hybrids).

(cross-posted)

 

[Butty]

Is the American Herring Gull a separate species of Herring Gull? . . . American Ornithological Society considers the American Herring Gull to be a subspecies of Herring Gull.

There is no 'rule' about this. It's up to you to believe whichever source you prefer, or whichever you judge to be the most-widely accepted.

 

[birdbath]

This is the first Herring Gull I've seen and it was in Quebec, so if I were to use the IOC classification system then it must be an American Herring Gull, since the other species are all outside North America. Does this make sense?

 

[Butty]

if I were to use the IOC classification system then it must be an American Herring Gull, since the other species are all outside North America. Does this make sense?

No, 'fraid not. The decisions, preferences, etc, of taxonomy are independent of the location/nationality of the observer and of the birds concerned. So you can follow whichever scheme you prefer, as I outlined above - regardless of where you or the birds are/were.

 

[birdbath]

No, 'fraid not. The decisions, preferences, etc, of taxonomy are independent of the location/nationality of the observer and of the birds concerned. So you can follow whichever scheme you prefer, as I outlined above - regardless of where you or the birds are/were.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

 

[01101001]

European Herring Gull (as per the IOC; Herring Gull (European group) as per Clements) would only be a rare vagrant to the US or Canada, and it does look appreciably different from its American counterpart--the location isn't the only difference.

 

[birdbath]

I don't suppose it's possible to confirm (100%) that it's American based on my two pictures? If not, I'll still go with American since it's so much more likely than one of the other species.

 

[Butty]

That's not quite the point...
There's no reasonable doubt that your birds are the American form of herring gull (the European form would be too rare to be worth considering) - the only point at issue is whether you consider the herring gulls in America to be a) a subspecies which is a part of a more-widespread species (which is called 'herring gull') or b) a species in itself (and thus called 'American herring gull').
FWIW, my personal take is that the precise common name, and whether one considers that to be a species or subspecies, is of zero importance. The only useful thing to be had out of this (if you accept the ID of contributors above) is just to call them herring gulls - and rest content.

 

[birdbath]

That's not quite the point...
There's no reasonable doubt that your birds are the American form of herring gull (the European form would be too rare to be worth considering) - the only point at issue is whether you consider the herring gulls in America to be a) a subspecies which is a part of a more-widespread species (which is called 'herring gull') or b) a species in itself (and thus called 'American herring gull').
FWIW, my personal take is that the precise common name, and whether one considers that to be a species or subspecies, is of zero importance. The only useful thing to be had out of this (if you accept the ID of contributors above) is just to call them herring gulls - and rest content.

This makes sense to me, and since this is the first Herring Gull (of any type) I've seen, I can add it to my list without worrying about subspecies.

Thanks to everyone for your assistance.

 

[Butty]

Personally, I'd wait till I'd seen a nice pretty adult, close-up, and identified it for myself from a field guide. Far more satisfying than taking someone else's word that that's what a small mushy-brown lo-res image is. But some people think I'm a bit of a purist... And I do like your bit about not fretting over subspecies (and names, and taxonomy in general)

 

[birdbath]

I'm new to birding and I would definitely be on the purist side of things, so I can certainly appreciate your point. For example, I wouldn't ID a bird based solely on its song - I want to see the bird. I think I'm ok with identifying a juvenile, however, as long it's 100% clear.

 

[01101001]

Many songs (and calls) are much clearer than that.