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Victory model between Dialyt & FL (1 Viewer)

SeldomPerched

Well-known member
I came across rubber armoured roof prism Victory 8x40 binoculars (or 8x42, not sure which) recently and had a quick look through them across open fields and farmland.

In all honesty they didn't set the world on fire in the half hour that I played around with them; who knows their previous life and knocks.

Just wondering what this model might be called. I had assumed - wrongly - that the Dialyt era was followed by the introduction of the ribbed Victory FL with the glass reinforced warm-in-cold weather covering. These binoculars had a more standard rubberized covering with a dotted pattern in small squares on it. I've not seen them discussed much, unlike the FLs and subsequent HTs and SFs.

Were they generally not that great compared with the other models I've mentioned and then given a quiet burial when the FL was born?

Tom
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
I remember these, design wise they were a pale grey with the small circular cut outs and horrible angled/ winged pull out eye cups. Ran just before and alongside the green rubber armoured Night Owls. Optically not a contender to the Leica BA Trinoviid though nicely balanced and weighted. Think they were 40mm.
 
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Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Vic Mk1

Another 2 pics.

Lee
 

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Binastro

Well-known member
I have the 10x40, I think, not great and the armour is I think very difficult to replace as not directly attached underneath.
Also the shop misrepresented their condition and I will not buy again from them.

Maybe the rubber was sticky, but I cannot remember.

They are O.K.optically, but not great.

A mistake on my part given the price, condition etc.

B.
 

Gijs van Ginkel

Well-known member
The first Victory (Victory-1) series was not nearly as good as the later Victory FL binoculars. I see rarely any Victory -1 binocular for sale and I would not buy one myself.
Gijs van Ginkel
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
At the time a number of people complained that the attachment lugs for the neck strap dug into the web of skin between their thumb and first finger.

Here is another pic.
Lee
 

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Swissboy

Sempach, Switzerland
Supporter
Switzerland
I came across rubber armoured roof prism Victory 8x40 binoculars (or 8x42, not sure which) ...............Were they generally not that great compared with the other models I've mentioned and then given a quiet burial when the FL was born?

Tom

They are the original Victory models, came as 8x40 and 10x40. Both my wife and my daughter still own them. Optically, they were fine at the time of purchase in July 2001. However, they definitely are dated now. Nevertheless, my wife is still very happy with her 10x40 model. I tried to convince her to get a 10x32 FL, but she steadfastly refused.

The 40mm objective size is actually a good compromise between the 32 and the 42 mm models, saving a little weight over the 42mm ones yet still offering a larger amount of light to go through than on the 32mm models.

One major problem, apart from an originally unfortunate strap placement, was the fact that the shell soon got a matted and very worn look. My wife actually likes the winged eyepiece cups as they shield out some side light.
 
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John A Roberts

Well-known member
Australia
There is relatively little information available about the original Zeiss Victory line, but I’ve collected the following

A) x40 MODELS
Overview
The original Victory line was introduced in 2000, in 8x40 and 10x40
After complaints about various features, a revised design was introduced in 2003 (it’s sometimes referred to unofficially as the Victory II)
The Victory’s were then replaced by the Victory FL line in 2004, in 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 (an all new design including FL glass)

To put the Victory’s into context with the other Zeiss roof prism lines, see the table of Zeiss models here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=370476

And at the time, the Victory’s premium competitors were:
- Leica BN in 7x42 , 8x42 and 10x42
- Swarovski SLC in 7x42 and 10x42
- Swarovski EL 8.5x42 and 10x42
- Nikon HG (aka Venturer) in 8x42 and 10x42


Patent
I’ve attached a copy of a 2000 patent for the construction and covering used on the Victory line, along with a composite of the patent images from Allbinos
see: https://www.allbinos.com/169.1-arti...twentieth_century_to_contemporary_times_.html


Performance
There is a 2003 review by Steven Ingraham of Better View Desired, that describes the model revisions introduced in 2003 (the Victory II)
- and interestingly he compares the optics to those of the Zeiss 7x42 Dialyt (aka Classic)
See both the PDF and image

EDIT: I was sure that I'd also seen earlier comments by Steven on the Victory. I finally located the document, and have attached it to provide context for the above
Go to the second half of the attached PDF

For an introduction and link to the current location of Steven’s site see here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3806291&postcount=4


continued . . .
 

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John A Roberts

Well-known member
Australia

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John A Roberts

Well-known member
Australia
B) x56 MODELS
There were also 8x56, 10x56 and 12x56 Victory models

EDIT: Looking at the Allbinos binocular database (https://www.allbinos.com/binoculars.html):
- the 8x56 and 10x56 models were introduced in 2000
- the 12x56 model was introduced in 2002

They were then replaced by the all new design 8x56 and 10x56 Victory FL models in 2006
(in contrast, the x40 Victory models were discontinued in 2004 when the x42 Victory FL models were introduced)


I’ve attached an image that shows the optical evolution of the Zeiss 8x56 models, starting from the top:
- Dialyt (from 1968, external focus, based on the previous Hensoldt Dialyt)
- Design Selection (1992)
- Victory (2000)
The image is from Allbinos: https://www.allbinos.com/177-binoculars_review-Carl_Zeiss_Victory_8x56_T*_FL.html

There is also an article by Walter Besenmatter of Zeiss, that includes both historical and technical information about the progression of the three 8x56 designs,
and is also the source of the second image, see: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=369170

There are some comments on x56 performance in this 2006 thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=59241

And finally, I’ve also attached a copy of the x56 specifications from a 2004 catalogue


John
 

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SeldomPerched

Well-known member
There is relatively little information available about the original Zeiss Victory line, but I’ve collected the following

A) x40 MODELS
Overview
The original Victory line was introduced in 2000, in 8x40 and 10x40
After complaints about various features, a revised design was introduced in 2003 (it’s sometimes referred to unofficially as the Victory II)
The Victory’s were then replaced by the Victory FL line in 2004, in 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 (an all new design including FL glass)

To put the Victory’s into context with the other Zeiss roof prism lines, see the table of Zeiss models here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=370476

And at the time, the Victory’s premium competitors were:
- Leica BN in 7x42 , 8x42 and 10x42
- Swarovski SLC in 7x42 and 10x42
- Swarovski EL 8.5x42 and 10x42
- Nikon HG (aka Venturer) in 8x42 and 10x42


Patent
I’ve attached a copy of a 2000 patent for the construction and covering used on the Victory line, along with a composite of the patent images from Allbinos
see: https://www.allbinos.com/169.1-arti...twentieth_century_to_contemporary_times_.html


Performance
There is a 2003 review by Steven Ingraham of Better View Desired, that describes the model revisions introduced in 2003 (the Victory II)
- and interestingly he compares the optics to those of the Zeiss 7x42 Dialyt (aka Classic)
See both the PDF and image

For an introduction and link to the current location of Steven’s site see here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3806291&postcount=4


continued . . .

Very thorough, John; thank you. I will have a good look as am interested to see the Dialyt comparison. As I have a 7x42 FL also this Victory model is of academic interest to me as a bit of history bridging the gap.

Tom
 

SeldomPerched

Well-known member
Performance, continued

Kimmo Absetz conducted comparative reviews of:
- Victory 8x40 in 2003 (review and table attached)
- Victory 10x40 in 2004 (review and table attached)

For a link to and navigation of Kimmo’s reviews, see here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3816800&postcount=20


There are also comments from 2006 about the 8x40 Victory II here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=68779

Also very useful, as in quite a few articles I have read the links to Kimmo Absetz lead to a dead end.

Tom
 

Binastro

Well-known member
Hi Andy,
Post 7.

Zeiss overhauled the Victory 10x40 F.O.C., so it works well and gives good views.
I don't know if it is an early or later model.
It seems better than the older Classic 10x40, but I much prefer the Conquest HD 10x42.

What niggled me was that it was misrepresented by the shop, so I have never dealt with them again.
The same happened with an old Leica 10x40 from another shop that had treated me well for decades.
But since that time, I have not had anything to do with them.
Buying secondhand or even new can be a hassle.

The answer is pretty obvious.
Don't buy anything unless it is really something special, such an overwhelmingly superior IS binocular.

Regards,
B.
 

Swissboy

Sempach, Switzerland
Supporter
Switzerland
B) .........Victory models

……………….
There are some comments on x56 performance in this 2006 thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=59241

And finally, I’ve also attached a copy of the x56 specifications from a 2004 catalogue


John


Thank you so much John. Great to have my own collection completed now. Those Alula reports were only in part in my collection, not to speak about the x56 info among other items.
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Notes from correspondents at the time indicated the following changes from Victory 1.0 to Victory 2.0:

Strap holders/ lugs changed and position changed.
Dioptre adjustment improved.
Rubber armouring is improved.
Stray light was reduced.


Lee
 

james holdsworth

Consulting Biologist
It's odd how certain models obtain a cult status and others die on the vine. The Victory II is a good example - won the technical shootout in the test against the cultists, but is much unloved today.
(reposted from the EII thread, as it seems more relevant here)
 

Hermann

Well-known member
Notes from correspondents at the time indicated the following changes from Victory 1.0 to Victory 2.0:

Strap holders/ lugs changed and position changed.
Dioptre adjustment improved.
Rubber armouring is improved.
Stray light was reduced.
I got a Victory 10x40 1.0 immediately after it came onto the market. Sent it to Zeiss because I wanted a slightly stiffer focuser. What I got back was a binocular with the exact same serial number - but with new strap holders and MUCH better performance against the light. Made quite a difference.

BTW, I still use that pair quite a lot. The optics are not as good as modern binoculars, but still pretty good. Definitely better than the Dialyt 10x40 BGATP. One thing many people don't know is that it was the Zeiss pair with the largest sweet spot at the time. Their main weak spot is CA. The much maligned rubber armour held up over the past 20 years no problem. Better than the armouring of many modern binoculars.

Hermann
 

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